Disease As   Consciousness...
  Nov. 7, 1998
 
  This event has only edited to remove unrelated topic information:
  Log-file starts Sat Nov 7 20:01:06 1998 (MST)
 
RichardKula< /topic Spiritual Discussion In Progress..... LOL
RichardKula< Perhaps we could discuss Paths and what that really means.
RichardKula< Hello Dayvid *VBS*
RichardKula< Maybe the power in WORDS and how that relates to Consciousness!
RichardKula< A discussion of Forgiveness could be good! *VBS*
RichardKula< Perhaps Understanding what Truth is.... not the different truths we all hold, but what are Absolutes, and what is Principle and what is Out & Back and Universal Law and what does all of this mean to US?
DerekLamar< What do you think this means when people are so upset about absolutes.... they actually become unhinged like someone is telling
them what to do.
Gandolphin< What do you guys think about healings.... what is this really about?
RichardKula< Hello Dayvid! *S*
Dayvid< When walking, just walk.. when talking, just talk.. when eating, just eat..
RichardKula< Hello (((Chaske))) *VBS*
Chaske< hello!
Dayvid< Humble bow RichardKula.. may all life be as you dream..
Dayvid< You have too many windows open to pay attention..
RichardKula< Hmmmmmmm most of my dreams are okay, but it is my understanding that life itself is a dream..... *VBS*
RichardKula< Hello Presence (((VBS)))
Tahuti< GreetingS All
RichardKula< I was trying to get a group started to discuss something spiritual in a serious manner....LOL
RichardKula< Hello Tahuti
RichardKula< Dayvid... don't give me away....ROTFL
Tahuti< Truth sounds like a good discussion topic
RichardKula< Okay Truth it is.... I often do a lecture called TRUTH: A Dinosaur In Modern Times! *VBS*
Tahuti< are we discussing personal truths or the Universal Truth?
RichardKula< Truth bothers people because there ARE so many different "truths" but as a group it is necessary to understand that in back of all
that is there are fundamental Truths.....
RichardKula< Personal truths are usually facts which can also be translated as lies or illusion.... Universal Truth is the only one which is worthy of discussion.
harp< la vida es suena
RichardKula< Hello Harp.... yes..... LIFE is a DREAM
RichardKula< Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream, merrily, merrily, merrily, merrrily, life is but a dream.
harp< ..and also a book written i nthe 15th century i believe
HoneyFrosted< OKay, here I am you two, no more privates!
Tahuti< The Universal Truth that at the core of our essence is total bliss..total AT ONE MENT, and the illusion is our vehicle to "discovering" this and making it our truth
Tahuti< hello Honeyfrosted
HoneyFrosted< Hi dear
RichardKula< No doubt..... even Jesus made it clear that what we perceived was not Reality.... and Plato as well... even before.... it is a Golden
Thread of Understanding which has come along throughout our history which finally mankind collectively must deal with as his world crumbles
before his eyes.....
harp< lol everyone so busy DESCRIBING. QUATIFYING and DISSECTING the menain g of life..lOLLHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA try
livin it!
RichardKula< Hi girls *S*
harp< floooooow
Tahuti< good advice, Harp, you a Taoist?
RichardKula< Why does everyone here get so sarcastic instead of seriously enjoying each other and discussing truth.... people just are so hungry
for therapy before they can even begin a path it seems.
harp< loll Tahuti you is not a helpful soul,,lollahhaahahaa
harp< i try not ot ist too much Tahuti
harp< if ya mena me richard..i am not i nthe least sarcastic...really iam not
Tahuti< no sarcasm here! im a Taoist, myself, you see
RichardKula< Well they do have the highest suicide rate in the U.S...... Alaska that is.
harp< lolll nice richard
harp< hard to live wihtout the light
HoneyFrosted< RichardKula, if I may ask, what exactly do you mean by 'therapy'? Are you suggesting people turn to the spiritual as a means of
assuaging and remedting their deep personal struggles?
Tahuti< the most difficult thing on my path is defining my life in relation to Truth
RichardKula< the point is for people to get together and share what they know so that they can come to a greater understanding of spiritual principles.... simply telling people to live it.... is not helpful..... the obvious statements are not always illuminating.
harp< and water adn sewer nad access to goods..and education..and medicine etc
Tahuti< spirtual practice is the only thing that works for me
RichardKula< HoneyFrosted.... my point was there are many people I find in the Chat rooms who could and definately need personal therapy in a psychological manner before they could begin to understand Higher Spiritual Principles. Not being totally nasty... but this argumentive pose many people take seems so resisting to Higher Understanding and the arrogance becomes a coverup for a Real Path.
harp< sigh
RichardKula< SWC goes through cycles it seems..... sometimes there are good discussions some times there are not.
Tahuti< Ill share what I know, we create the world around us through our perceptions of the symbols the world represents, and we have fallen into a trap of giving the power we possess to the symbols instead of the meaning of the symbols
harp< sorry richard...seems you feel you are the oneot judge others i was merely laughing ..wiht warmth at out too human attempts to understand
the divine by quantifying it.. if you feel i have no spiritual path well.. you don't know me and i would hope you would take the tiem to do s obeforeyou so harshly judge me
RichardKula< I do believe that Spiritual & Psychological Therapy should go hand in hand..... one is dependent upon the other... but few understand it..... today's psychology is pretty empty... mostly about money and putting in 50 min. once a week for life and billing it to an insurance program... *S*
harp< yeah that was basicly what iwas thinkin Tahuti..smile
RichardKula< harp.... it's okay... get off of it.... discuss something....
harp< loll you STILL controlling richard..smile
RichardKula< I think Tahuti has something there... I agree with what you are saying about the symbols....
OnToLove< Huge Hugs, {{{{{RichardK}}}}}}}} Long time since I've spoken with you
RichardKula< Hello OnToLove *VBS*
OnToLove< How goes it, RichardK? Light and Love to you
HoneyFrosted< RichardKula I am a Psych student and I would have to agree with you in part on both your comment regarding spirituality and
psychology going hand in hand, and about psych being empty. Unfortunately, like so many things in human history, the truth of some noble pursuit has been replaced by greed, so that instead of truth being the zenith of the quest, the almighty dollar is. But beware of sweeping statements, for I would not even say most psychology is empty, neither would I say they go hand in hand. In deed, they often tread the same path but only because their paths cross, not because they are travelling necessarily in the same direction. However, allow me to quantify that by saying what I always say, truth is true, regardless.
SolSoul< Hi guys! hi Rich :). My friends use something they have named Shamanic Counseling as a better tool to help counsel people. It offers
what normal Psychology does not
RichardKula< It is often necessary to make "sweeping statements" because the essence of them is accurate.... regardless..... Yes, I was
generalizing because the psychology I deal with is not of that category nor I would imagine yours.... but also like even chiropractic medicine.... as
soon as it caught on to the insurance companies that it might be cheaper to pay off Chiropractors instead of surgeons they supported it and
suddenly the market was flooded with, not necessarily quacks but exploiters.... shall we say *VBS*
RichardKula< (((((((SolSoul))))) blessings upon YOU.... *VBS*
OnToLove< I agree, HoneyFrosted.... I have even found psychologists (aware of being) on paths of light
Tahuti< some of the most "spiritual" people I know would be certified insane based on classic definitions, which come from institutionalized modes of thinking, by those who are not whole themselves
RichardKula< If most psychologists and psychiatrists could read a little Carl Jung as well as understand that what we are is CONSIOUSNESS
and that MIND is an ongoing unfoldment it would be an improvement.
OnToLove< But, also, RK, I too have found the kind of both psychologists and chiropractors that had moved onto insurance as the easy way to
riches
RichardKula< OnToLove.... oh yes indeed.... it is hard to find a good chiropractor... they are out there but very few are really into Holistic or
Wholistic medicine.
OnToLove< chuckling, yes, Tahuti, I agree.... I became shy of channeling for that very reason.... (What? you hear voices? how very interesting....)
RichardKula< The human mind is merely an illusion based on Separateness from the Reality which actually binds all of us together..... yes LOVE but in the Highest Sense and all of the attributes of that Truth and what that means in terms of ONENESS and INFINITY.
harp< yeah and you know tho it is no better thing ot dress the same imprisnoning judgeemnts wrapped i nthe jungian flag..there are as many of
these quacks as the old kind
RichardKula< Yes, I would imagine you are right harp.
harp< and is the old woprld practitioner an yworse than the new if they both exploit for fees?
HoneyFrosted< RK, indeed, through whatever way they have discovered to make themselves rich, many (mental) health professionals seem to
have 'lost their way', seeking a comfortable life over seeking the truth of the science of the mind, but not all, and even those that have have not been completely lost for many discoveries are yet being made (though some people are getting rich off of them). It is the pop-psychologists with which you are angered, those who offer a 'quick fix', a 'five session solution' to all life's problems.
RichardKula< You are right harp.... one is even worse than the other because it attempts to deceive even more.
harp< and is the old woprld practitioner an yworse than the new if they both exploit for fees?
Tahuti< so the ultimate expression of human existence is oneness with the divine?
harp< and its not even new..we know some of the old shamans up here got pretty bad
RichardKula< Well, yes and know, I am not entirely against Pop psychology because it brought it to the mainstream, even radio psychology is
raising people's consciousness at the level they are at.... some old serious psychology, though sincere is just dead, so the motive is important.... but
one can find help if they really want to "Wake Up" *VBS*
OnToLove< and yet, HoneyFrosted, is not our world at this time, keyed to looking for just that same 5 session solution to each of life's problems? Don't we all wish for them? I find this most interesting... recently most of those I see around me aren't interested in any but "instant" gratification....
harp< and its not even new..we know some of the old shamans up here got pretty bad
RichardKula< No, Tahuti, I wouldn't say that..... not as Human.... I would say that in Reality we are ONE MIND and we are basing our current
reality on a state of duallity which is a separateness from each other as consciousness..... not just mind as in human thinking but mind as in
Beingness.... as Light..... as Infinity... conscious of itself on the highest Order.
Tahuti< i dont necessarily agree that waking up is dependent on pshychology
harp< lol the angst of the age..Whay am i not making more money..loll more happiness. mor e..more...motre..more..SOMETHING..lolll
harp< i am wrong i am right..lol you are sooo funny richard
RichardKula< No I don't either but MIND will play an important role on some level or other.... one could simply wake up to REALITY by letting go suddenly of all illusion but I don't see it happeing that way very often. LOL
OnToLove< LOL, harp
RichardKula< harp you just need to argue with people to get the anger out of you from your childhood which you haven't dealt with completely
yet... I am not the source of your pain.
Giles< RichardKula I know what you mean...I stopped going to my chiropracter when started pestering me to sign a pitician for the insurance
agencies...and pushing health food products on me. Plus his kinesiology was totally inefective.
HoneyFrosted< OnToLove, indeed, we live in a world where 'instant gratification' has become a right to be demanded by the populace...consider
our means of communication here, this night, were we to try and have this discussion including all that are involved right here, right now, we would either tally up an incredibly huge phone bill (which is still an aspect of 'instant gratification') or it would take months and months of traveling via the snail mail trail. But as a novice student of Ninjutsu and Zen (among other things), I have seen that the most important lessons we learn in life, the knowledge that will sustain su throughout our physical existence comes slowly and is to be hard fought after.
Tahuti< so then the ultimate illusion is the idea of seperation?
RichardKula< I know that there was a big push on by the AMA and others to dump on chiropractors in the 50's and they spread the rumours that
they were all quacks and many were because for one thing you could become a doctor more easily as a chiropractor, but there were many
legitimate ones, and by the 60's and 70's it began to change and become more Holistic/Wholistic but then it got weird againt in the 80's and 90's and now going to a chirpractor is like having your aura examined by an electrician. LOL
harp< wel li think that there is a flooow an enrgy ..and some of it flows through humans in a wa ytaht we..as humnas recognize so we immediately thin kah hthis must be the superior higgher way for it to flow..and then start preening ourselves admiring ourselves adn asking each other we are wonder ful are we not? and we forget the rock and teh oceon and the su nand the sky that this same enrgy flows tehre too..sigh..it is fro marraogance that finelly..we will fall..this notrion that we were MEANT to hweave dominion over the world adn not be one with it
HoneyFrosted< The ultimate illusion the idea of complete underlying unity.
harp< i am not arguing dear richard..please stop attacking me wiht that crude pop psych saber your thrashin around with.,. loll someoen might get hurt accidentall yand i DO believe you wouldn't want that..at heart
Giles< The word reality has taken on such a negative context, from ill use by parents and so called therapists...that it makes you want to cringe
when you hear it no matter the intent.
RichardKula< Tahuti... it does translate out that way to a certain extent.... but it does relate to the differences between ONENESS and DUALITY or whether there is a Spiritual Order, which we can call truth, without defining it for the moment, which is ALL there is and because we feel separate from it... we have lies and truths rather than the ALLNESS which reveals that finiteness is actually Infinity and pain is actually the
absense of the pure pleasure of love, ONENESS, and disease is the DIS EAST or interrupted HARMONY as in Dis Harmony.... all that we call
negative in the "bad" sense directly relates to separateness whereas all that we call Spiritual traces back to an Understanding of Oneness.
Tahuti< so then the ultimate illusion is the idea of seperation?
OnToLove< Yes, HoneyFrosted... true. Interesting thoughts about the phone bill. VBS My comment was addressing psychologists going for the
fast fix.. I was imagining and wondering how they could really avoid this approach when the populace almost insists upon instant gratification... just pondering the concept. *S*
RichardKula< Well Giles, I have to use words.... we need to understand that there is a difference between "reality" and Reality and not continue
our battle with old teachers and parents.... that battle can be dealt with on the couch, but the spiritual battle must begin by realizing the Truth behind words and not the limitations humans put on the words to satisfy their own selfish needs. I understand what you say but all of the English language is damaged in that way and we have to begin where we are at.
harp< the westerm empirist notion is to split..split split..things.. first you split god fro mnature..than human fro mgod..the n..no iguess since we see ourselves assuperior..we'd split first fro mgod..THEN from nature..and fro mthat all else would becoem other..lolll lalaaaaa singing..there is no night apart fro mdayy.. no self from other..all these things arelies..there is no great divide..we area allsome part of the th one eternal way...a drop is the river.. adn yet not..smile yet without it the river cannot exist..smile where do we find the power of the river ..drop by drop..oh never..for ther is n oself without hte oyther..smile n onight apart from ..daaay....oops sorry usuall ythey don't LET me sing..hahahaaaaa
harp< you hqave a nice laugh ontolove..smile i like to laugh too..smile
Tahuti< seperate from the divine, i do not percieve this and oneness is inclusive of both pleasure and pain
harp< in a way luaghter is a kinda music too
Giles< harp I've come to see the universe as on solid piece...expanding and contracting. There is no true point where I end and you begin. The
whole thing is our body. If a drop falls in the ocean, is still a drop or is it now the ocean.////Richard people are often comforted by the idea that
everything has duality or balance. Espescially when dealing with morality. Thinking good and evil are absalutes instead of selfimposed conditioning so societies can exist.
RichardKula< What harp says is important.... he is echoing some of the theories they began in the late 80's with the Looking Glass Theories etc..... where it was understood that today's science divides things up ad infinitum and it never gets to the final answer because Infinity is Truth and you can divide forever... anyone who understands the principle of mathematics has discovered that.... they decided that we must look at the Universe in a Wholistic fashion to begin to understand what is Reality... actually I feel it is both... because Reality is ONENESS but also Infinite Variety and often we discover GOD or TRUTH or SPIRIT by seeing the multiplicity of reflection and then realize the ONENESS in its connection. harp< yes tahuti!! yes yes yes..exactly..split split split loll the surgeon in search of the soul..sigh
harp< ahem richard,, in fact i am a she..and in fact i had these thoughtand that little song i just sang looong befoerthe 80;s..in fact it is primal beleif systems it is the basic diffenrece between many native cultures and western cultures..
SolSoul< Yes I understand what you are saying Richard. I spoke with another on this subject. Infinite Variety....
HoneyFrosted< OnToLove, I understand. And the point is intriguiung because is brings up the politics of health related issues. Do health care pros, and in particular mental health pros, give the care they do the way they do because we, as a population, a majority, demand it that way? I believe in the area of research, there is less public pressure (tho there is still much politics because of theings like trying to attain research grants and such), but when the research finds it's way into practice, is it forced to conform to public want or be discarded? We know the way it SHOULD be, but I don't believe it is that way at all. Then again, I am convinced that many of societies mental problems have been created by society and their wants!
OnToLove< why, thank you for noticing my laugh, harp... blush
harp< its o.k..smile you westerners'll catch on yet!!!
SolSoul< well take care all!
RichardKula< Giles well within ONENESS there is a balance as understood by Principle: or the Universal Law of Out and Back, Male Female,
As Above So Below, etc., but this is two aspects which require each other for they are always ONE as opposed to duality which are aspects that
contradict or oppose each other.... even they at some point do come together however because they are illusion and Truth is all there is.
harp< yep giles
Tahuti< oneness transcends the opposites of duality, and finds peace in both
RichardKula< We have a lot of Infinite Variey within the earth realm because actually there is no earth realm.... I often say that Earth is the edited version of Heaven.... we are in HEAVEN now but our filtering system, our state of consciousness cause us to focus on things in a limited manner... as we raise our consciousness our world changes... not because it is really changing ... but because we allow in more light and see more of the REALITY which is actually there.
OnToLove< yes, HoneyFrosted, isn't it intriguing? As a health care practitioner of sorts, I find it hard to advertise, or at least to find clients who
want to do the work. I find that some (not all) think the work is to be done by those they "pay" to do it, rather than by themselves. I'm not a
psychologist, but have studied much in that area
HoneyFrosted< RK, duality is illusion? What?
Giles< harp you used that metaphore before me!! SHAME ON YOU!!..Just teasing. It looks like we think alike..:-)
harp< well ontolove..its teh ultimate in consumerism eh? consumption. one buys therespy..like a thing..object./.that one then HAS..loll funny but sad too..
harp< *grins at Giles..
harp< *singin..used that metaphor before..afore yo uused that metaphor befoere..loll witht the right best...
RichardKula< Honey, yes, duality is illusion... just as disease is illusion.... when there is harmony there is no disease... I am simplifying here but the principle is accurate.... when we separate ourselves.... we have Dis Harmony and this is duality..... as Principle is out and back... we get back what we put out..... if one believes in disease they are believing in a mind set which is in opposition to the harmony of oneness.... and this duality is an illusion, not reality.
harp< ahh medicine for pay..sigh theres teh ethic eh?
HoneyFrosted< OnToLove, yes, yes, that is true, people (an in the area of purely physical health care, i guess I have been, at times, guilty of just
this thing) go to health workers and expect to be fixed. 'Fix me!' I think all they have to do is be able to pay the bill for it and all else will be done to them. They don't see that the body and mind are intrinsically ties together and that,first of all, a positive attitude of learning and self-help (cringe) go a long, long way. In fact, I believe that a large portion of the people that suffer physically and mentally do so because they don't take care of themselves.
harp< its happening here too.. now you can't get elders ot go to hte schools and share what the yremember of the old ways..without paying them
100$ a day..sigh
RichardKula< OnToLove.... similar to the story of Krishnamurti when the Theosophical Society wanted to make him the World Teacher and he
told all the people that they had to do their own work... he couldn't be their savior... they were shocked... do our own work? they asked???? they
were shocked....
harp< wel lthey [paid didn't they? s othe yshould be "fixed" loll..i see it..starting with medicine for money
RichardKula< Paying for help would be alright if anyone got help or wanted it.....ROFTL
OnToLove< Laughing, yes, HoneyFrosted, I am also guilty of this. And even of not taking enough care of myself. Perhaps sometimes not thinking I deserve the same care I would suggest my clients take of themselves. LOL
harp< i go outot the remote vilalges and tel lthem..no one is coming ot save you..and you oughtta be thankful for that..if anyhting is gonna happen
ehre..YOU are gonna haveto DO it
HoneyFrosted< RK, I'm afraid my view of such things as disease is a little more mundane and tangible than disharmony and oneness. I guess the
sciences of virology and epidemiology are heading in quite the wrong direction. And cancer patients will be happy to hear that the only reason they're suffering and dying is because they're singing out of tune.
RichardKula< People need to understand that on a Path one is asking not be be healed but to be led to the door of their Soul... they enter at their
own risk....LOL
Giles< Richard I like what you said. So many philosophers and theologians have used the concept of HEAVEN as a standing point to look down on and criticize the earth. Oh and I wasn't criticizing your use of the word REALITY if my phasing was misleading. I was defending the word from present day slanders.
harp< se thats wahti liek about you ontolove..smile you understand we al lis fallible
OnToLove< UH OH.... someone started the room laughing... who's the culprit??? Quick... stop them! LOL
harp< itsa catchy beat ontolove..
harp< haahaaa everybod ywant t otdance
RichardKula< HoneyFrosted I am speaking in generalities.... but Cancer is from harboring hatred and emotional constructs which are eating
away at the soul of an individual, pneumonia is often symbolic of a broken heart or broken spirit or depression, and a bad back can be a lack of
support or feeling unable to stand up to life, or feet problems dealing with understanding or eyes related to "vision" or headaches related to things
which just hurt to think about or the hands related to things you are in touch with or the stomache having to do with how much "you can stomache" or blood having to do with spirit and cleansing.... and so on.... which often relates to one's own belief system and emotional hurts that we carry along with us which are triggered from time to time or cycles which give us once again an opportunity to deal with our consciousness through our body because we are not dealing with it through our MIND.
harp< well HoneyFrosted you gotta remember tho al lthose spontaneous remissions..and actuall yyou know there have been peoel who swear the
ywere literall yCURED buy laughter..*shrugs..ya gotta wonder
HoneyFrosted< I have never heard of anyone overcoming any serious illness simply by thinking hard enough in their MIND nor by laughing at it or anything else. This is making a mockery of scientific research.
harp< and i dunno about the specificity of disweases.. ithin the energy looks at hte structure and finds a path.,..some thats the heart attack..others
its cancer..wh ocan say..we know so little.. iam amazed that the structure of one typr of cell. iforget at the monet..is hte same as teh pattern the
quatamalan weavers use.. ihad to stand back and think..HOW DID THEY KNOW?? yet the patterne was tehre,,complete adn i was sure they had
never seen a microscope...
RichardKula< Yes, laughter has often healed people.... it shakes them from the seriousness they are stuck in and it allows a natural healing...
sometimes this is enough... healing takes many forms.. but the important thing is that it is there and holds more reality in it than does the disease.
Tahuti< so, the major obstacle in human development is seperation from the harmony which flows from the divine source?
harp< sigh..i into hte sciences..microbiology and yet.. i have to think there is oo much we do not know..and ther e ARE these cases of spontaneous
remision..the yis fact..sigh i don;t know how..and i wouldn't know how to DO it..buthtere they are..
Tahuti< and connection with divine harmony is the key to a blissful existence...
Giles< Richard That sounds a lot like cundalini.
harp< we IS teh divine source and the flooow tahuti..there can't be one wihtout the other..they are one
RichardKula< HoneyFrosted If one understands Principle and that we get back what we put out and that Consciousness is all there is, then we
begin to understand the our consciousness can take the form of diseases and medicine does a little to help but all it ever really does is allow for a
natural healing which is inate to take place..... and that disease is our Consciousness when we are not "thinking" correctly in a Higher Sense.... just
as confusion can bring on a cold.... it has been discovered that disease is often brought on by peoples state of mind.... but it is diffilcut for people to understand and those making money off of the pharmaceuticals certainly wouldn't want people to start believing like this. lOLLOLLOL
harp< hahaahahaaaa..giles well not all existence is blissful..but hten who said it had ot be..loll
OnToLove< HoneyFrosted, Richard speaks the truth. Unfortunately I cant think of the book (was it Cousins, Richard? Who wrote the book about
laughter healing?) Anyway, there have been at least several books written on the subject. No, I don't think it makes a mockery of scientific
discoveries, but Science overall hasn't caught up yet with the mind/body connection... It's beginning to.... Actual MD's are beginning to notice this.
Have you read anything by Bernie Siegel MD??? *S*
RichardKula< I want to thank all of you... I feel we have had a really good discussion..... and everyone participated and everyone gave
something... this was great..... the chat thing is good but there is room for this here too.... Blessings to you all.... I must go....... Spirit & Truth in your continuing discussion.... love and ((((((HUGS))))))
harp< well i look at pharmaceuticals this way..medicine with spirit ma ybe able ot effecta cure..but medicine wihtout spirit will do nothing...smile
harp< unconditional life deepak chopra..is ok too
Tahuti< Safe journies, Richard
OnToLove< Love and Light, Richard
VioletAngel< veggies are the best :)
HoneyFrosted< RK, I am sorry, there have been many times in my life when I have encountered things that have, at least initially, confused me,
and I cannot recall ever once coming down with a cold as a result of it. That has to be one of the silly prognoses of a cold I have ever heard. ANd
you still ignore my comment about scientific discovery. How is it that certain specific chemicals and/or naturally occuring substances go a long way in rectifying specific illnesses and other do not, because our collective oneness believes this is so? Because our harmony has convinced our universal unity that this drug fixs this but not this?
Tahuti< well, this has seemed an accurate discussion of truth...multifaceted as it is
harp< its jsut more splitting honey if it works use it..if its nOT working figure out why adn mebbe try somehting else
harp< jeeeeah what are al lthese pronouncements..?? is this discussion over suddenly?? who is deciding this?
HoneyFrosted< Alas, RK has left, if you catch this, know that I appreciated the excellent and challenging discussion as much as you. The Light lead us to meet again.
harp< o hbut i have will3d MYSELF sick honey
birchfaery< Oh dear did I come in at the end of something?
VioletAngel< ...physical body is part of spirit, many don't recognize the physical body as the gift it is, it lets u know when there's something out of balance, when we're not distributing our energies in a proper way and take them from the body, then comes the pains, it helps you find the problem and fix it :-) be good on your body!
harp< wel lguess the discussio nis over ,,i ma not sure wh yas we are stil lhere..loll but everyone seems ot be saying its over
harp< doesn';t NEED to be teh end birchfaerie.smile
OnToLove< Or perhaps a new discussion is starting, harp and birchfaery .--- welcome!
Tahuti< truth is the topic, faery, want to express yours?
harp< loll ontolove
birchfaery< Thankyou Harp and Ontolove
harp< GOD SI LOVE
OnToLove< HoneyFrosted, are you still here?
birchfaery< My truth? With unconditional love, anything is possible...now can someone tell me how to love unconditionally?
OnToLove< sure, birchfaery. Light and love to you
harp< loll wel lessee we know lots bout what NOT to do..smile
HoneyFrosted< harp, and what was the result of tis, a headache, an upset stomach? Nothing to serious, I wouldn't say. Nothing that stress doesn't
bring on in many people, but could you have infected yourself with anthrax, for example, by willpower alone? I think not. I have not once in this
entire discussion denied in anyway the existence of some connection between body and mind, indeed, earlier I brought up the point myself, but the
connection is not as entirely spiritual as many seem to interpret it.
Tahuti< unconditional love starts with a love of Self, and realizing that Self is all there is
harp< actually honeyfrosted it was leukemia
OnToLove< not easy, birchfaery, LOL. Actually, I want to love conditionally until overall consciousness raises somewhat more than it currently
is... LOL
harp< its ok honey
HoneyFrosted< harp, you intentionally inflicted yourself with leukemia? And did you will yourself well?
harp< ontolove..ahahahaaa then i wanto loveconditionally..ahhaah coz the re wil lbe no un..smile hahahahaha
Giles< Good night all and thank you for a lovely conversation. May flights of angels wing you to your rest. peace and ((((LOVE))))... ZZzZZZzzZZZzZZZzZZzzZZzzZzzZZz
RichardKula< I had to come back for a second.... yes, it was Norman Cousins....LOL....
harp< honeyfrosted you sound angry - i intentional ywilled myself t obe ill..yes i bleieve that ,,and yes basicall yi did
birchfaery< Exactly! As humans we have trouble cause we bring so much of our own "stuff" to any thing we do, which is all normal, but can we
as human beings ever reach unconditional love? OntoLove Votre page est .mmmm cool!! *S*
OnToLove< are you taking a hard line on this, HoneyFrosted? *S* I wouldn't imagine anyone intentionally inflicts disease on themselves. No, I
take that back, there are a few that hate themselves that much, but in general my statement holds.
harp< don't beleive it honeyfrosted..adn don't disbelieve it either..entertai nthe idea for awhile..wihtourt judgement..accept it without tryingot tear it apart..lollat least fro a few minutes..let tit settle
HoneyFrosted< harp Angry? In a sense, yes, perhaps, because the very idea of willing upon oneself a disease is rather sadist, isn't it?
OnToLove< thank you RK... Angels fly with you
harp< when i say intentioanlly..i don't mean necessarily consciously..tho for me not much is unconscious
OnToLove< birchfaery, what happened when you clicked on my name? (thinking, how interesting)
harp< sigh.. one doesn't wil loneslef ot be hit by a truck..but one wills oneslef by a road eh??
OnToLove< and harp, are you in remission?
OnToLove< LOL, harp
HoneyFrosted< The reason it may appear that I am taking a rather hard line on this is because in all our 'enlightened' discussion of disease we
seem to totally have ignored science. Viruses, bacteria, germs, these things exist and these things inflict upon frail humanity devastating pain and
destruction and no matter how hard we think about it, we have not yet been able to heal ourselves from these things. Is this not true?
RichardKula< HoneyFrosted... I can't stay but I want you to understand I am not talking about will power here.... it is deeper than that..... but
sometimes just getting out of bed and doing work in the garden has cured people but even that is not what I mean... I mean changing one's
consciousness... we often come down with illness related to circumstances which provoke a weakening of the body and our immune system.... it is
not punishment or judgment... simply an outpicturing of our state of consciousness as it relates to us and we deal with it.... one way or another....
*VBS* but we get what we put out and we do and do not accept Truth where we stand so yes we will it on ourselves to a certain extent but it is
usually way beyond or beneath our everyday thinking.....
harp< yep..since 91..or actuall y93..depending on how they measure these things
birchfaery< OntoLove I got a cute little man throwing dirt out of a road sign triangle...nothing to click...giggle En Traveaux...under construction?
harp< sheesh for once richard THANKYOU!
harp< antibiotics won't cure it either honeyfrosted.. sigh they are jsut setting us up for the next wave..
RichardKula< ((((((( HUGGING HARP )))))))) *VBS*
harp< Richard..smile
RichardKula< .                       .               ^             *.            ^           *      .                          .                   .      .                                                          .     
        ^                   .             ^              *                              .         ^           .                   .                           .                            *             .                              *              .       ^          
                                    .              ^                                    *.             ^          *     .                                              .             ^                 .                  .      .                                         
.             ^              *                              .         ^          .                    .       --==oooOOO{{{(((|||| ||| || | HUGS TO EVERYONE | || |||||||)))}}}OOOooo==--.
*.            ^          *      .                          .                  .       .                         .             ^                                                    .                                 .             ^           
     ^             *                               .         ^           .                   .                          .                                           .             ^                      *            .                                          .          
    ^                       *              .       ^                                              *.            ^           *     .                                                .             ^       
      .                  .      .                                        .              ^              *                                       ^     .                           .             ^                                   .                           *      
      .                              *             .        ^                                                                    .             ^             
harp< kinda funny eh? we asllrelaxed when talking in principles but minute something like this hits..personal real..we get scared .nad
disbeleiveing..the MIND screams out noo that can't be TRUE ..is against everthing we have been taught..and yet in listening and accepting..this is
in its own a way a simple aact of faith ..and how else wil lwe eve nbegin ot understand unless we DO listen?
OnToLove< congratulations hugs and warm fuzzies, harp. I'm deeply touched by your good health.
birchfaery< OntoLove Did you go see it? I assume that if you click on your name it will be there for you too, Hmm wonder why the French.
Ohhhhhhh from the Fire probably, its a cute icon
harp< back i nthe 70's duke university added a parapsycholgy wing ot their MEDICAL school ..did some very interesting researc hon natural
helaers
harp< lol that should read WIHT natural helaers..loll not ON them hahahaaaa
harp< sigh..i am sorry honeyfrosted
birchfaery< harp? What has been the response rorm the Duke University thing? I am a Reiki master, and I am interested
HoneyFrosted< RK, it is my position that while the mind and body are undeniably connected in a way inseparable, illness and disease are not as
related to consciousness as you make them out to be. Of course disease comes with a weakening of the body and it immunosuppresive functions,
and quite often that is directly correlated with the circumstnaces in which we find our selves. I have not once indicated that they were related to
punishment in anyway. However, there is little that is deeper than will, my deepest desires and drives for bliss and pleasure, are part of my life will, my will to live and progress and achieve. Contracting any disease has no part of that and so it is something foreign to what I put out, I put out 'good' to receive 'good', why, then, do I receive disease?
OnToLove< HoneyFrosted, I don't know if RK has gone for good this time, but I think the theory is that as we put out good, we also put out those things we have not resolved, such as past pains we deny or hate or in some way haven't resolved... and that our buried, unconscious pain sends out stronger signals, or radio waves or psychic energy than the "good" signals we send.
harp< hmm i don't know if the yare stil lactive birchfaeire..you muhgt ask the yhada film short out too..oni it..was fascinating..
OnToLove< harp, that IS fascinating. birchfaery, I'm 2nd degree Reiki. Have you read Hands of Light? by Barbara Ann Brennan (not sure of
spelling) It has pictures that you'd love, and LOTS of useful information
OnToLove< but don't worry, each of us has to resolve our own stuff. You're not responsible for that
HoneyFrosted< Again, as I have mentioned too many times in the past hour, are we collectively ignoring the microscopic world and viewign the
issue of disease through colored glasses, glasses than interprets the real world as some cosmic kaliediscope where there's nothing but whirling
colors and bolts of energy? How can we continue this discussion without considering those hard facts of science?
harp< go ahead adn consider them honeyfrosted we are not not considering them..they are real enough..other things are real too
harp< then theres those cases where no matter how much medicine you pour in......
OnToLove< HoneyFrosted, Science is good and useful. And other knowledge is as well. Please, you didn't answer me. Have you read anything by
Bernie Seigel MD? He and others trained in medicine have learned things that the "scientific community" have yet to accept. They don't negate,
but COMPLEMENT science
HoneyFrosted< OnToLove I sincerely apologize for neglecting to answer your question. I am currently involved in about four distinct and
separate conversations (and I don't think the separateness of them is bad in anyway). And so to answer your question, no, I'm afraid I have not,
and I guess that places me in a position of ignorant disadvantage for which I beg your pardon and deter to your experience and knowledge in this
area, as in it I have little. What, then, from this writing, id it you wanted to point out?
harp< i can't afford ot pay for the training..lol would be cheaper pt go to med school,,and loll easier ot get money
HoneyFrosted< Come now harp. we have, in this past hour, shared thoughts and ideas between us, have we not? DOn't say I haven't been talking
with you too.
OnToLove< HoneyFrosted, I thought it might give you information you have asked for here tonight. May I ask whether either you or a loved one are seriously ill? please don't answer if you'd rather not. Your discussion tonight has made me wonder.
RichardKula< Yeah, I know , I am back,,,,,, had to update my site.... puts quotes which relate to our discussion tonight...... really good night..... I will
sleep happy....*VBS*
HoneyFrosted< OnToLove Be not afraid to ask, I will answer because the answer is no. There is no one close to me, family or friend, who is
seriously ill that I am aware of. My discussion tonight was born of itself, prompted and continued of it's own volition. I seek the truth being in it's
discovery, freedom. "Truth is true, regardless."
HoneyFrosted< Et al, given that our most intriguing and thought-provoking discussion has come to an end and my clock now reads 3:56 am, I
have decided to depart and enjoin those treading the plains of sleep. TO all with whom I have communed and conversed this, my first night here,
well met, dear ones. Peace and grace unto. And remember, "truth is true, regardless."
 

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