Axiomatic Thinking

Nov. 18,1997

This event unfolded as you can read here:
    Starts Tue Nov 18 18:16:19 1997 (MST)       Return To Newsletter Cover      Continue to Axiomatic Thinking Part II... November 26, 1997
RichardKula< /topic Truth... A Dinosaur In Modern Times!
Peachbird< Hey, Rk, a dinosaur in modern times? LOL I feel abit like that tonight! Only really "hi" !!! It was a good day for me. And you?
RichardKula< Hi Peachbird how are you doing. I will be right with you.
Peachbird< Fine thank you. Take your time.
RichardKula< I haven't forgotten you I will be right there.
Peachbird< Little Peachbird, preening, looking at the sky, checking claw nails for rough spots, finding a nice looking leaf to meditate on, losing interest, humming a little tune, Hmmm......
Peachbird< The sky is fine here, nice and clear, good moon reflection in the water, some dumb looking fishermen in a boat. HmmmHmmmmHmmmm......
RichardKula< Relax Peachbird, relax.... I am spinning, little fruit tree mammal with wings. I just finished reading your "book". You're are worse than me. I should show it to my wife she would tell me I deserve it. I can get quite windy. She helps edit my writing.
Peachbird< Well, well, well....turns on the branch a couple of times, ruffles feathers, settles in...hey, maybe a nap, nah, Hmmm,Hmmm,Hmmm.........
Peachbird< LOL, feel free to show it to your wife!! Well, I know it was a book, thought you would have read it before you came. LOL
Peachbird< Hey, stop that! I'm getting dizzy!! LOL
Peachbird< Unfortunately, I don't have an editor!! Hmmm,Hmmm,Hmmm.......
Peachbird< I tried to make a long story short!! That is the short version!! LOL
RichardKula< Hey I got booted off.
Peachbird< If you want to know anything else, feel free to ask!!!
RichardKula< My name is Derek Lamar and the Richard Kula thing seems to come in handy here. If I sign on as Derek Lamar, the professional side to it might come in and I could be too serious... but this way I can laugh, camp it up if I want to, be politically incorrect, and even though it is no
secret as to who I am, it lends a little bit of obscurity to it... similar to sunglasses on the beach.
Peachbird< Little bird stretches, yawns, Hmmm,Hmmm,Hmmmm......
Peachbird< Sunglasses on the beach, ah....
RichardKula< Let me give you a pencil sketch of my teaching, some basics, plus what you may have already mused... and if you ever see what you may interpret as inconsistencies... please bring them to my attention because if it is your misunderstanding you need clarification and if it is mine, God forbid... I need to know.
Peachbird< Okay, fine....
RichardKula< First off I do not believe in a lot of what passes for New Age these days. I will be writing an article on in and putting it into the newsletter and uploaded in onto the web site. I do believe in Absolutes and I do not believe that we have total Free Will.
RichardKula< The only way we could have total free will would be if we were separate from what is Reality, God, Truth, whatever the Absolute is that makes all of this possible.... or BE.
RichardKula< God, Truth, Infinite Mind, Being, I AMness..... is One Mind, not in a thinking anthropomorphic being but as Infinte Consciousness beyond but including thought and beingness and Absolute Love. This One Mind is Oneness. This is way nothing can be separate from it therefore it cannot have free will . One Mind has FREE WILL but even then it is bound by its own BEINGNESS which is Infinite.
Peachbird< hmmm, hmmm, hmmm, know it takes time to put in an outline, but...
hmmm, hmmm,hmmm *merry beak*
RichardKula< Where did you go?
Peachbird< Sorry, got bumped off my branch!! Just looked up there. I'll read you stuff now sorry....
RichardKula< You're funny.
Peachbird< Okay, so is like we are all part of the whole, like a cell is to the body kind of thing? Am I following you?
RichardKula< No, and this is the part that makes the unconscious in everyone quiver.... you cannot be part of the One .... you can only be one with the one....
Peachbird< Okay, is my belief we come with a rough outline to fill in the blanks, don't think we have total free will because we agreed on certain things before does that fit?
Peachbird< One with the One, like each expressing as one, but the only ONe?
Peachbird< then you think we are each God/whatever you want to call it*
RichardKula< Imagine for a moment, you can close your eyes, but don't forget to refresh *s*, and imagine that all you are aware of is your mind. I will cont.
RichardKula< Imagine that all you know to be are thoughts within your mind and that you are not a body but just consciousness and that the appearances of a body is in fact, in truth, within your mind, within your consciousness. I will cont.
RichardKula< Everything you imagine that happens, things you imagine you do, things you imagine happen to you, people you meet, all are thoughts you have created in your mind... your infinite mind... the Absolute Consciousness which is all there is. I will cont.
RichardKula< Descartes had his revelation similar to that of Moses when he argued that "Cogito Ergo Sum" I think therefore I am..... now most people do not pursue this but in his argument he expands on this and says that even if he thought he didn't exist.... he would have to exist in order to think that. I will cont.
Peachbird< whoa, that is heavy stuff....
RichardKula< We haven't got to the heavy stuff yet... you relax and be patient.... LOL I will cont.
Peachbird< So, I am ready for the next level and so I create I anywhere close to what you are saying?
RichardKula< Existence is to be... to be is being... being is beingness... We are being, but even as I say that remember there is but One Mind communicating to itself when it says we, just as we are aware that all are our thoughts within our consciousness.... I will cont.
RichardKula< I sometimes tell people that earth is the edited version of heaven. What we see we see that way because of our limited consciousness which is based on our filtering system. Like sunglasses... we are only letting in a limited amount of light. I will cont.
Peachbird< one mind when it says we, I am God(for lack of a better word) saying, and you are God saying and we are One....hmmmm
RichardKula< It isn't that I wouldn't like to tell people that we are all part of God and that actually we are empty vessels waiting to be filled up with a little bit of God stuff if we are real spiritual and chant twice a day and buy my crystals and be sure to put this oil on your forehead when the moon is full and the burglar is in the second house and jupiter aligns with some cars..... I will cont. (yes, I was trying to be funny. LOL. I will cont.
Peachbird< Okay....
Peachbird< Yes, I don't need all the ceremony, etc. either...LOL
RichardKula< The important thing is for people, consciousness as it is here and now, to understand that, as in everything, there is a mathematics to spirituality and if that mathematics is not sound... the combination will not be correct and it will not unlock the door... similar to the understanding in the mustard seed of faith... it isn't in the amount, but in the mathematical understanding of the absoluteness of it. Any questions so far?
Peachbird< Oh, my, I was really serious, then I caught the jupiter aligns with some are cracking me up!!!
Peachbird< whoa, whoaaaaa.... I am still digesting....Okay leave off the hocus pocus and study math? *?*
greycloud< (sneaking in quietly...) hi guys...
RichardKula< Well the mathematics needn't be any more difficult than 2 + 2 = 4 but it is logic in a higher spiritual sense.
RichardKula< Hello Greycloud.
Peachbird< Okay, can deal with that, and......
Peachbird< Hi, Greycloud, am getting a lesson...*S*
greycloud< Hi, Richard!
greycloud< Hi, Peachybird. I won't break your concentration. Just passing through...
RichardKula< If the mathematics is not adherred to people can have some success but nothing lasting... they will get relief... but not release. I will cont.
Peachbird< I don't mind, Greycloud....
Peachbird< Okay, RK,....more...
RichardKula< Aristotle was big on metaphysics and logic. Some people think that logic is an intellectual male thing and very left brain but it is not. It can be but one can always take the male or female equivalent and see the androgynous nature waiting to be revealed. Logic is very androgynous. I will spell it out. I will cont.
RichardKula< Never forget what I will tell you next. You can hold on to this for the rest of your life and beyond. I will cont.
RichardKula< It will sound humanly simplistic but try without being spiritually phony to imagine the simplicity a yogi might convey something seemingly simple yet you know there is something much deeper... I am not talking about Zen... there will be no dichotomy here... the mystery is in
the absoluteness... I will cont.
RichardKula< Aristotle taught about syllogisms. These are arguments based on a major premise as a first step, a minor premise as a second step and a conclusion as the third step resulting from the first two. Just as in Descartes "Cogitor Ergo Sum" I think therefore I am. But it does not seem
like a syllogism to the untrained eye. I will reveal it to you. Actually it should read as follows: I think, I must exist in order to think, therefore I exist (or I am). So we have a major premise of I think, which is supported by the minor premise of I must exist in order to think and in putting these
two together we come to the conclusion of Therefore.... I AM I will cont.
Peachbird< Okay, sorry, got bumped off again, will have to catch up!!
Peachbird< Are you with me RK, or did you get bumped?
RichardKula< This syllogism comes in three parts just as simple as 1 + 2 = 3. It is mathematically sound. It is intellectually sound. It is spiritually sound. The Major Premise is male (in its expression, understand), the minor premise (is female in its expression) and the conclusion is the forming of the two therefore it is androgynous and complete. Similar to Mind, Body and Soul. I will cont with the important syllogism you should never forget. Ultimately it will answer everything for you. Maybe not this minute... but ultimately. I will cont.
RichardKula< I am here... little bird.
Peachbird< Okay....
RichardKula< Most people want to know the truth about something, at least they used to before they decided that everyone had a different truth... but even if that were so there would have to be an Absolute which would make it possible for everyone to have their own truth. I will cont.
Peachbird< I'm following so far, I think.....
Lord_Ruler< Peace To All.
Peachbird< hi, LR, I am getting a lesson. Namaste.
RichardKula< I wish people would understand that everyone has a different perspective and that everyone has a different belief system but that Ultimately there is Truth and this Truth is what makes existence possible, it is what makes "out and back" possible, it is what makes Love possible, it
is what makes thinking and consciousness possible... but because no one wants anyone telling them what to believe they have come up with this clever "belief system" which seesms to deny "truth" itself. But that is not new. Jesus told Pilate he came to bear witness to the Truth and Pilate's response
was not a question but a statement when he said: "what is truth?" I will cont.
RichardKula< Peace to you Lord_Ruler.*s*
Peachbird< Okay, I think, I must exist to think, therefore, I am. 1+2=3
RichardKula< Truth is very simple. We do not have to decide about countries or fruit or people or politics or music... just the definition of the word.... I will cont.
Peachbird< Alright, cont., read the jesus/pilate thing....*S*
RichardKula< Now we must understand the concept of truth, because it is mathematical, and it is a concept which has power... but truth is simply "that which is so". We don't have to yet determine what it is only that whatever it is, it is "that which is so". I will cont.
Peachbird< definition....
RichardKula< Understand here, I am interrupting myself, that these Principle which I am now unfolding will answer every spiritual question you have ever had. Why healing works, what is so about psychic things, how can one manifest bread and fish, how do we have power over life and death.... I will cont.
RichardKula< Now if we are going to understand Truth then we must know what truth isn't. That should pretty much cover everything. Either it is true or it isn't. I will cont.
Peachbird< okay...think I am with you....
RichardKula< So....... that which is not truth is not so. That is simple enough. I will cont.
Peachbird< if it is truth, it is manifest, if not, then it is false belief system or is not real....????
RichardKula< Therefore (there comes that big word again, ERGO) remember your therefores because these are conclusions you are making and they should always be made on sound information. Therefore Truth is all there is..... got that? I will cont.
RichardKula< Truth is that which is so.
RichardKula< That which is not truth is not so,
Peachbird< Oh, wow, lost me. What happened to the not truth. It just is not. Everything revealed is truth?
    Tue Nov 18 23:22:26 1997 (MST)
Peachbird< Oh, wow, lost me. What happened to the not truth. It just is not. Everything revealed is truth?
RichardKula< Therefore Truth is all there is.
RichardKula< This is the part which is hard for people to understand. But remember the concept of illusion for a moment.
Peachbird< *heavy sigh* truth is all there is....
Peachbird< Okay, illusion....
RichardKula< If I said I have got five dollars and you don't have anything then between the two of us we have five dollars. There is no value to the negative. That which is not so is not so....... it isn't.... it IS NOT SO. IS NOT.... is not is not is not......
RichardKula< First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is (this is a syllogism based on the same axiomatic principle)
stoner< Forgive me for interupting, The truth is that which is so, whether I understand it as truth at this time or not for if it is not truth it cannot be so Yes?
Peachbird< Okay, clearer...
RichardKula< I know that good and bad, truth and error are very popular and they are useful tools to our struggle to understand... but when people say that there is nothing bad but thinking makes it so... that is something else... because they also say now that conversely nothing is good.... but this is not so.... Truth is good. I will cont.
Peachbird< is stoner right there, RK...
Peachbird< got bumped again, I'm back....cont.
RichardKula< Stoner... we are but dealing with the definition... we are not even taking into account a belief... just the definition.... so either so = so as in truth = so or it does not... but we all agree that by definition our use of the word truth is for something we believe to be so, no?
Peachbird< agreed on defin.
stoner< Agreed
RichardKula< If I do not believe that the moon is yellow, I say that it is not true or it is not so. Therefore Truth is that which is so. If I believe that the truth being yellow is a lie or that which is not truth therefore it is that which is not so. We cannot form any conclusions here to our satisfaction other than therefore surely we must agree... LOL
Peachbird< Oh, my, lost me there.... on the surely we must agree....LOL
Peachbird< I say moon is yellow, you say not, which is true?
Peachbird< Both is true, so we agree!!!! yes?
Peachbird< LOL
stoner< Both true therefore no conclusion can be reached so we must agree yes?
stoner< I think RK got bumped now we're screwed!!
Peachbird< Hey, stoner, think we lost Richard, think he got booted? or frustrated with the student....LOL
Peachbird< this is a guandray, very bad spelling, but think yo know what I mean....LOL
Peachbird< I was just starting to think I got it.....
stoner< I think I started to catch on but I don't know for sure
stoner< I visited RK's web site Its huge!!
Lord_Ruler< I know, I visited RK's web site also.
stoner< well poo poo I'm off
RichardKula< Yes, I got booted for sure, but I am back. If I were a Christian I could blame it on the devil. LOL
Lord_Ruler< RK, So What Do You Practice?
RichardKula< So once we understand that a syllogism has the properties to unfold an answer by way of a conclusion we can pursue this. Truth is that which is so, that which is not truth is not so therefore truth is all there is. So what have we discovered? We have discovered that not only is Truth all there is but that Truth is ALL. If Truth is All then Truth is ALLNESS and if Truth is ALLNESS then Truth is Infinite. Therefore Truth is infinite and this is one of the first answers which is thrown about that we have proven mathematically right here on paper... to hell with black holes, and conjecture... it is right here Infinity. Any questions to this point?
Peachbird< got bumped,but I am back....
RichardKula< I am sorry about the yellow moon bad example I should have said green... we have had so many harvest moons lately, forgive me.
Peachbird< Truth is Allness, okay, got it....
Lord_Ruler< So What Do You Practice RK?
Peachbird< Never could get into the black holes anyway, seemed superfluous....
RichardKula< I don't want to get into what I practice per se, because I believe it all goes into the same pot, but like my web site shows, metaphysics, ontology, Fourth Way Instruction... but I will cont. here.
RichardKula< So once we understand the Syllogism, as I put it with a Capital "S" we can see that Truth being All and Allness being Infinity... we can expand this realization to understand what the Nature of Reality is since...... isn't Reality only that which is SO?
Peachbird< superlative, not the other....LOL
Lord_Ruler< RK. What Topics Would You Like To Conversate About?
RichardKula< Once Allness is established then we can see that Wholeness is Reality as well.
Peachbird< Reality that which is So or Truth...
RichardKula< We are conversing on the nature of Truth and how Truth is all there is forms the basis of all Reality.
RichardKula< Once we have established Wholeness then we can conclude that Completeness is Reality. Truth is all therefore Truth is Whole. Truth is Whole therefore Truth is Complete. Truth is Whole and Complete therefore Truth is Perfect. Truth is Perfect therefore Truth harmony. Truth is harmony therefore Truth is Balance. Truth is Balance Therefore Truth is Order. Truth
is Order and Truth is Perfect therefore Truth is Perfect Order.
Peachbird< Richardkula, got to give up the phone... sorry, be back soon if you like to cont...
stoner< WAIT, Allness is infinite therefore wholeness is infinite therefore reality is infinite??
PrarySky< Hello!
Lord_Ruler< RK. Would You Say That We In A World Of Illusions?
RichardKula< Let's throw out something someone might believe. Let's say I have a cold and I am not feeling well. So we are dealing with a physical condition which all of us are probably familair with. I will cont.
PrarySky< And the Truth shall set you free....
RichardKula< This is true Stoner... what you say is TRUE.
stoner< OK then I think I am up with you so far
RichardKula< Indeed the truth will set us FREE... it will even show us we always were FREE but didn't know it... Ultimately it will show us we were always free and always knew it.
RichardKula< Illusions are believing in something which is not true. We believe in it because to us we see it as true even though it isn't so that would be an illusion but more often than not we are not seeing what is true and as a result of not seeing the truth we see something less than the truth and until we see the Whole truth what we are perceiving we can call illusion.
PrarySky< Richard...Yes, it is like waking up to what we have always
been...I think of it as my best memory. To see myself as God has always
known me.
Lord_Ruler< RK. To My Overstanding, Isn't This Quantum Physics?
RichardKula< We have all experienced Love for instance. We many have had a distorted view of it or an incomplete knowingness of it but we grasped it on some level so not all is illusion. As I said earlier I try to get my students to understand that earth is the edited version of heaven. All the
outakes left on the cutting room floor are the remainders of reality which because of fear or whathaveyou we only allow a certain amount of understanding into our sphere of living or within the consciousness we can handle at a given point in time.
PrarySky< Richard..It is interesting to consider the words: as on Earth as it is in Heaven. As above So below.
RichardKula< Basically yes, this is seeing oneself as God sees me or as God sees God which is what Quantum Physics is discovering and will be the next science, of sorts, reflecting our next stage of development. Cause and Effect must be understood an Octave Higher as in Out and Back, Mountain and No Mountain, Truth and No Truth and then Truth is All there is. We are in a mirror of our own consciousness as humans, but also as God, and everywhere in between... but ultimately we hold the key to unlocking this door and as more and more doors are unlocked it makes it easier for others because there is but One mind and all these doors are the same and connected to the same Mind and the 100 th monkey knows ALL as it were.
wonder< Greetings {{{{RichardKula}}}} {{{{{ALL}}}}}!!!! Truth, huh? That's a VERY interesting topic!
PrarySky< Wonder..Hello!
RichardKula< This is so PrarySky, The Above is the Below and the below is the Above because there is neither there is just the ALL. But we see something above us because we feel it is beyond our reach and we see the earth below because it is less but it is not so. This reality we live in truly is a
holodeck and the illusion is the outpicturing of all of our consciousnesses.
wonder< If you discussed this already, I apologize . . . how do YOU know if
it is true?
RichardKula< That is true Wonder... just as it is so that you are here. This is true.
wonder< Hello PrarySky!!! Thank you for the welcome!
wonder< I guess my question is "Who's truth?" It is true for each individual for that moment in time. Everything is TRUE -- everything IS.
RichardKula< We have discussed it already. That is what has brought us to this point. Truth is that which is so, that which is not truth is not so, Therefore truth is all there is. Truth Being All therefore truth is Allness. From here we can continue to form conclusions which reveal a Reality which is mathematically sound and in total agreement with Infinity.
Lord_Ruler< RK. For All Things Exist Within The All. From Within The All Is Where You Came, And Within The All Is Where We Will Return. The Ultimate Reality Is Beyond the Reach Of The Limited Intellect,And Within the Reach Of the Unlimited Intellect.
RichardKula< We all share certain beliefs in spiritual ideas but we do not always know where they come from. Can anyone here explain how the principle of "You get back what you put out" is True?
Lord_Ruler< RK. For All Things Exist Within The All. From Within The All Is Where You Came, And Within The All Is Where We Will Return. The Ultimate Reality Is Beyond the Reach Of The Limited Intellect,And Within the Reach Of the Unlimited Intellect.
wonder< Mathmatecally sound? Source does this? It can only be true if it can be proved by mathmatics?
wonder< My belief is You get back what you put out is based on the reflection of your projection. It is what you SEE and DO.
RichardKula< Wonder tell me something that you "believe" is true and something you think you "know" is true.
wonder< RichardKula it seems that all my beliefs are being tested these days. I see more and more that everything IS and it matters not what I believe.
RichardKula< What projection... how do you know I exist? How is this true? I don't disagree, but your statement must be more complete. What you are saying is a belief based on what?
wonder< My truth comes from my heart and is not influenced by what others think or feel. It is MINE and mine alone.
stoner< Richard, I have learned much and I thank you I think I understand that truth is what is so, and therefore brings perfect order. I hope we can talk again soon on how to put this new understanding into physical use. Good Night my friend.
wonder< RichardKula I really don't KNOW that you exist. You could be a hologram I created just for this particular experience. I don't even know that I exist for that matter. As the game becomes more evident, it is more difficult to "see" what is real and what is not. Who defines reality?
PrarySky< Richard...Different stages of our ability to create. I once did a meditation. By focusing on the sound of the different forms of the word Create, Creates, Creator, on..They carry a different vibration. Vibration is a sound a sound is a number.
wonder< Good night stoner!! Love, Light and Laughter dear ONE!
RichardKula< The heart means nothing to me here. I might feel lonely in my heart. I might feel you are a bad influence. I might feel that we have 14 years left and the world will end. What do these feelings mean? What are they based on? What tells me my feelings are sound? How can I believe my
feelings when so often I have been wrong about my feelings?
wonder< PrarySky I agree with you. The energy of sound affects us very strongly.
PrarySky< Stoner..Night...Dream well wake joyous...
wonder< RichardKula have you REALLY felt your feelings from your heart? For the most part, we let our minds overtake our hearts and that is where the confusion comes in. The heart ALWAYS knows our truth.
peachbird< Night, Stoner *S* L&L
PrarySky< This remindes me a bit of Pythagorus....
PrarySky< peachbird..Welcome back...!
peachbird< Richard, sorry, i'm back, I am going to review what I missed quickly....*S*
RichardKula< If you are sick I know this is an illusion number one... because sickness is an error. Truth is all there is and it is whole complete and perfect and therefore sickness must be a lie because perfect health is truth. But then I must also know that there is no you because there is only one mind and I AM is all there is therefore within my consciousness I must understand that perfect health is Reality and that anything else is an illusion based on non-truth ideas or feelings. And in KNOWING this a change in consciousness can occur which will coutpicture itself as the Perfect Health I know. We may see this as a healing but in fact no healing took place, that too was an illusion, but what took place was the realization within Mind that Perfect Health is all there is. And in that I feel good
because in the perfect soundness of this is LOVE and I feel this with knowing Truth and that is when a feeling can be true.
PrarySky< Peachbird..I am glad to have dropped in on this conversation!
RichardKula< Wonder, how can you say that the heart always knows the truth and yet you want to argue that there is no Truth. I don't want to FEEL with my HEART that kind of confusion. It is not mathematical harmony... it is discord because there is no agreement. Either you must admit that Truth (whatever it is and I say it is that which is so) or there is no truth (which of course cannot be verified because you have established that there can be no truth).
peachbird< yah, is interesting...*S* some i have heard before and some is new.... the healing part and 100 monkey part I know, its the rest ....
wonder< RichardKula that is your belief and it is your truth. However, my belief differs and it is my truth and everything IS -- we do not have to agree on this.
Heartbeam< OK u guys don't u think it's past u're bed time?*VBS*
Lord_Ruler< I Agree With Wonder, You Don't Have To Agree.
wonder< {{{{{{{Heartbeam}}}}}}}}} Be careful, dearest, we are talking about TRUTH here! :-)
peachbird< RK, truth is all there is, anything else is illusion, therefore, that which is not perfect is illusion and cannot be true, is so....?
    Wed Nov 19 00:33:16 1997 (MST)
peachbird< RK, truth is all there is, anything else is illusion, therefore, that which is not perfect is illusion and cannot be true, is so....?
Lord_Ruler< I Agree With Wonder, You Don't Have To Agree.
Heartbeam< I am nothing If I am not the truth! *G*
flimty< Richard the truth can not be known throught the heart because the heart is biased. think about how many time you were wrong about thinking with feelings.
RichardKula< We do agree but you do not see this. The only thing I disagree with is the Heart issue because I know that people have not done enough spiritual and psychological work to clear up their filtering systems so that what they receive from their heart is true. We must have an understanding of the Absolutes so that what we feel we can interpret based on sound Higher Reasoning. This process is a development of the Heart and its ability to percieve.
PrarySky< Heartbeam...I may go to my prayers soon...*grin* It is good to be reminded.
peachbird< RK, I feel like I am right on the verge of grasping something here, but I am struggling to understand, I have a feeling it is so simple that it is complex....*S*
RichardKula< This is true Peachbird.
Heartbeam< RK _I agree with u! *S*
wonder< RichardKula how do you KNOW that I have not "cleaned up" my filtering systems?
RichardKula< This is true Heartbeam.
flimty< as for the 100 monkey somebody tell me why it was not proven it scientiffic journel?
peachbird< Hmmm, if you are experiencing something which is not perfect, illusion, then your filter is down, is so...? RK
Heartbeam< Praryshy -I don't know what I did but if I helped u in any way I'm glad! ((((*HB*)))))
peachbird< flimty, it has been....
flimty< Rich how do you test the heart to know the truth without biased results that come from your own preceptions?
RichardKula< Because if you had you wouldn't walk into a room like this and arrogantly determine that what everyone there was learning was wrong according to you even though you hadn't heard it from the beginning. That right there is enough. I don't who could argue with that and that is just psychology.
flimty< peach where? check csicop.
peachbird< ah, so....
flimty< i'm trying to find the truth, now answer the question.
wonder< RichardKula who was that last post directed towards?
peachbird< Seems like right in my biology 101 class at UH we discussed this very theory....
Heartbeam< brb
flimty< peach and?
peachbird< RichardK, the 100 monkey is not urban myth, but fact, right?
Lord_Ruler< You Can't Deal With The Heart, You Have to Deal With The Higher Planes That Exist. (NOT THE PHYSICAL PLANE)
RichardKula< I don't mean to criticize Wonder in front of everyone... like this be cause I feel strong feelings for Wonder since I started with SWC and Wonder has been loving and kind toward me but I must use what I have at hand to teach and since this has been donated to me "did I also miss the definition of Absolute Truth? I believe there are no absolutes. " Wonder says this and yet to say THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES is to use an absolute. Therefore even if we do not know what they are ABSOLUTES must have a basis in TRUTH. Not the opposite.
flimty< Rich tell me again how you over came your own perceptions.
wonder< RichardKula why is all this so important to you?
RichardKula< It is the absoluteness of Truth being All there is which provides for us the realization of ONENESS. It is in this Oneness which is Infinite as we have proved therefore Oneness is Ongoing therefore not stagnant therefore ongoing expressing itself .... but where... Truth is all there is ... this Oneness is alone it is all ONE... therefore it is expressing itself to itself... in human terms we can say it is expressing itself out and back to itself. And this is where we come to the Absolute Truth of the understanding of the Principle of "You get back what you put out." You may feel it is true with your heart but until you have this understanding you cannot know it. With feelings come belief but with
realization come knowing. Truth is all there is and you get back what you put out because you are all there is expressing the absolute Oneness you are to yourself. Male/Female out and back action/reaction.
Lord_Ruler< Wonder. What Do You Practice?
Heartbeam< If I may ....Wonder practices being the best she can!*VBS* (((*HB*))))
wonder< Lord_Ruler I practice LOVE -- thought, action and deed. And you?
RichardKula< The question to me Wonder is why when you don't agree with people you feel compelled to try and disrupt the flow of thought. Does this give you the attention you need or a sense of power by pulling the ship toward the rocks rather than standing together to see the Light?
PrarySky< Richard...So this is a good place to pause and consider the one breath with 2parts? Inhalation Exhalation.
Lord_Ruler< I Study The Facts Of Life And The Science Of The Universe.
peachbird< RK then you get whatever you expect to get, and if it is imperfect, then the imperfection is in your thinking, not in the manifestation of your reality - "garbage in garbage out"
flimty< how do feelings lead to belief and then knowing think about all the mistakes of the past "people knew the sun orbited to earth bucause the church said so they belived".
wonder< RichardKula I apologize if I came in and disrupted the thought. It was certainly not my intention. I was under the impression this was open discussion and I was airing my views. I am not here to defend or attack.
peachbird< RK I am trying to put what we have learned so far into practical experience kind of terms, was that too simplistic? *S*
flimty< Lord Ruler wise.
PrarySky< and the diferent forms of create are different exhatation in expression? Hmm now I am thinking...
flimty< i'm here to be a critic so i can really belive.
PrarySky< exhalation...
RichardKula< This is true PrarySky. We can see principle at work in all that exists. That is why I say the earth is the edited version of heaven. We can see truth even here. Because what we see here is what we are at this point in time capable of cognizing. And we can see many things in nature
outpicturing the principle of out and back. Too often people confuse duality with principle however. Good and Bad are not the same as Male and Female. And this is how female has been given a dark "bad" version when in actuality it is the absolute necessity of principle itself. The left hand and right
hand. Dualtiy is separateness where there is opposition and conflict wherein Principle there is unity expressing the Oneness that is Truth.
Lord_Ruler< RK. But How Could You Or Anyone Else Picture Heaven?
flimty< Rich answer the question.
PrarySky< I have been working to become more aware of the unity. Right now, I have gotten as close to considering the space between the outpourings or pulses. Hence the nick I chose. Mother Earth or Prairie, Father Sky, My prayers sound within.. so far it is PrarySky. Also my tendency to create asthma has shown me the value of the pulses.
RichardKula< It is important to be critical in the argument of the axioms. I cannot argue with belief systems simply because someone believes differently than me. That is fine. Believe what you want. But 2 + 2 = 4 and it is mathematically sound. Truth is that which is so, that which is not truth is not so therefore truth is all there is .... this is also mathematically sound. If I say "You get back what you put out" and I know what that means it is not because I read it in some new age book somewhere but because I heard it and it struck a chord with me and yes I may have even had a feeling within my heart that it was sound and good, but it took research and searching until I could come to an understand that in fact, in truth, you get back what you put out because there is ONE MIND expressing itself out and back to itself and all that is is that One Mind therefore must conform
to the same Universal Principle because all is One.
PrarySky< Richard..So is this what you mean by using what is around us to develope true perception?
Lord_Ruler< RK. That's Fine, But Could You Please Answer My Question. How Can You Or Anyone Else Picture Heaven??(AND IF SO HOW DOES HEAVEN LOOK)
RichardKula< Yes, Prary... what we perceive, even in heart, is our own awareness of our world, and it is our world, true or not, but it is a mirror a reflection of our then state of consciounsness, by holding up what we believe to what is True, true as we now know it, we can let go of false beliefs for a new knowingness and then a change in consciousness can occurr. Work within must be done to change consciousness. Just feeling with the heart is where we are going but we must change our consciousness to allow our heart to percieve as clearly as possible. The heart is simply coming
through the unconscious. How trustworthy is our unconscious much of the time?
RichardKula< Perceive heaven isn't so much a picture as a revelation. It is a feeling as Wonder has said, this I agree with, but getting to that place is my disagreement, but sometimes I truly feel I see God in my cats. My wife and I will call them our little pieces of God. That sounds silly but to us we understand and when we meet people who either don't like animals or are indifferent to them we know that there is so much God, Truth, whathaveyou, that they are missing out on.
Lord_Ruler< WONDER. Are You OK?
wonder< Lord_Rule I AM WONDERFUL!! Why?
RichardKula< Wonder is okay. Wonder is strong.
PrarySky< Richard..I will think about this...Each time we are restored to right thinking a miracle has occurred. So I sit in the void..and placed a campfire to sit by. Going to have to think about this.
Lord_Ruler< WONDER. No I Do Not Know How. Could You Please PM Me Some DIrections.
wonder< Thank you, RichardKula. *s*
Lani< RichardKula .. i know what you mean .. seeing/experiencing 'god/dess' in everything and everyone ..... no place, no being, no thing, where god is NOT .....
Lani< Aloha everyone *S*
PrarySky< another pondering before I go to bed...Does the different expressions of All that is create motion?
wonder< {{{{{{{{Lani}}}}}}}} Aloha!!!
RichardKula< There is a cultural clash as we are on this threshold. What Wonder believes is not so different from what I am saying. But it is the result of the pendulum swinging to the left, as it were, with regards to consciousness. We used to live, still do unfortunately, a male dominated society which held intellectual left brain scientific thinking as to the only answer to our world. Well we have learned this to be unclear at best... so we have shifted left... to right brain thinking (it is right brain because the right side of the brain governs the left side of the body which
symbolizes the female side of us) so feeling which is a right brain aspect is popular or politically correct, but I assert that only through an androgynous science will we be able to refile, experience metanoias and have an awareness where the Heart is a good receiver (like a radio receiver) to
correctly interpret "Reality" in a spiritual sense.
wonder< PrarySky seems that your question is a "chicken and egg" thing. Which comes first?
PrarySky< Lani..Hugs! I am off to bed... With focused thought tonight! Or so I hope... *grin*
Lani< like the wings of a bird .. different/opposite AND equal ... when both
developed and strong and working in harmony TOGETHER ... in balance ..
flight is occurs .... can't fly on 'one wing' .. *S*
Lani< (((((PrarySky)))))) sweet dreams dear heart and a joyous awakening *S*
wonder< Lani, I LIKE that!!! PERFECT!!!
RichardKula< Motion is illusion and yet it expresses the on-going out and back within consciousness ever moving and yet realize that everything is Consciousness. Just as you move your thoughts that is what reality is... thoughts moving... nothing ever stands still and yet nothing really moves. Here is where the zen things comes in and yet it too is true and these things all come together to understand one massive puzzle which mankind is on the threshold of awakening to.
wonder< {{{{{{{PrarySky}}}}}}} Love, Light and Laughter in your dreams!!! (whether they be day or night *LOL*)
PrarySky< Wonder...Don't know! Yet I ponder this..late one night I had it resolved then I woke up and realized I forgot!
Lani< both????? *sorry being silly here* ..
RichardKula< Thank you all for coming in and sharing. My love to all of you. I am going to be transcribing this and uploading it onto my web site so if you want to see where this started bookmark my site. Thanks and may the Mind, Heart & Soul be with you.
PrarySky< Wonder..Thanks... *grin with a hug* Night all...! Richard My thanks...Next I hope to discuss Zen!
wonder< Thank you, RichardKula!!! Blessings in ONENESS, dear heart!
Lord_Ruler< Peace RK
wonder< Well, since everyone is leaving, I guess I will too!! LOVE, LIGHT and LAUGHTER to you!!!
Lord_Ruler< Don't Leave Yet.
wonder< I really must leave now!! Love, Light and Laughter, dear ONE! Til we meet again!!! Namaste!
wonder< I appreciate your wisdom!! ***POOF***
    Last line submitted Wed Nov 19 01:51:04 1997 (MST)

Continue to Axiomatic Thinking Part II... November 26, 1997

Another SWC Event... "GOD... in a box"

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