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to Axiomatic Thinking Part
I... November 18, 1997
- "Axiomatic Thinking I"
Nov. 18, 1997
- RichardKula< Aloha..... and a good evening to you
- RichardKula< Hello Stoner... what a prompt display...
how encouraging. LOL
- stoner< Having Hawiian dream Richard??,, Me too
- RichardKula< SageWoman is walking down the hall
now even as we speak.
- RichardKula< Yes, I dream in Hawaiian all day long.
Even played some Hawaiian music today.
- stoner< I see you were expecting others, they may
be too busy getting ready for Turkey day
- SageWoman< trots into class, throws bookbag on
desk, spits gum into trash, and slouches in seat. Hi teach, what's
- RichardKula< I thought I heard the click click
click of those high heels as you approach this room. Room 222.
- RichardKula< She may have to stay after class.
- stoner< Those high heels will do it every time
- RichardKula< I don't have any idea who is going
to show so I am going to start immediately. I want to review
a few things from last week and then I want to make a statement.
- SageWoman< checking to see if cheat sheets are
still tucked in safe place *S*
- RichardKula< Can you both take seats a little closer
to the front so I don't have to yell.... I am just getting over
a cold. *s*
- stoner< Sure , I got 30 mins before bed
- RichardKula< The Syllogism: Truth is that which
is so, that which is not truth is not so, therefore truth is
all there is.
- RichardKula< This syllogism based on the format
of a syllogism conforms to Major Premise, Minor Premise and Conclusion
- SageWoman< throwing a spit ball at stoner
- The_Ringess< Que?
- The_Ringess< /topic Dharma Shmarma Who really cares
- RichardKula< Before I get too deep into the spiritual
side of things, I want to emphasize that what we are dealing
with here psychologically is the way we think. We think this
way all the time because what we are dealing with here is the
thinking process. The only difference is that the information
we use to form conclusions is not always so trustworthy. For
- RichardKula< Are you wishing to join the group
- RichardKula< Okay, I shall cont.
- The_Ringess< Is this an exclusive group? I tend
to conform to the philosophy expounded by the sage Woody Allen
in that I would never belong to any group that would have me
as a member.
- SageWoman< The Ringess, you are welcome to join
us but I came to listen and to learn
- RichardKula< I was hurt in love, I don't like that
kind of pain. therefore I will never fall in love again.
- RichardKula< That is okay because Mia Farrow wouldn't
have you either!
- RichardKula< So to be hurt in love becomes an experience
which we evaluate... it is only natural. And to realize that
that kind of pain is not desirable is commendable. But to avoid
that pain by removing risks in this manner is not axiomatically
sound. The syllogism which is formed is what is
- humorously called a SILLYgism because it is absurd and yet
people form this conclusion daily all over the world.
- The_Ringess< Ah that's a good one too. Or how about
the observation that some are enlightened and some aren't. That's
got to rank up there as a conclusion based on faulty information.
- RichardKula< This is way it is important to establish
an understanding of what truth is so that we can form conclusions
based on something substantial. Like I said... this is not a
new philosophy, this is the normal everyday way in which we already
think and form conclusions.
- RichardKula< How about I am lonely and hostile,
if I interrupt the flow of the current social happening I will
get attention, therefore that is what I will do and I will succeed
in fulfilling my emptiness.
- RichardKula< This too is faulty logic and will
achieve poor results... the major premise and the minor premise
do not sufficiently form the conclusion shown and emptiness will
still continue. Can we all see that? LOL
- The_Ringess< Or how about I know things that other
- RichardKula< Our world, though we all see it differently
conforms to each of our states of consciousness. Our thinking
is a process which continues that as well as being a filter which
will also help to conform it to our state of consciousness. We
play active and passive roles in the world that we
- interact with and in how we interpret what is going on....
having nothing to do with Absolute Reality.
- RichardKula< Can someone contribute a statement
about their world that they believe is actually true, or factual.
- SageWoman< I think I finally am beginning to see
how true this is. It used to drive me nuts to go see my mother
or to have her visit. Now it just flows right through me.
- RichardKula< /topic Axiomatic Thinking
- SageWoman< It is absolutely true that I do not
have enough money to pay my bills.
- RichardKula< What was it about your mother which
made you uncomfortable?
- stoner< Only that I am aware, other than that I
must say I have heavy blinders
- RichardKula< Okay we have enough to deal with for
- SageWoman< She talked too much, she didn't understand
me, she was critical, blah blah.
- RichardKula< Mothers can cause pain, we don't have
enough money to pay our bills and we look at life in a limit
- RichardKula< These statements relate to our senses
because it is interpreted by sight, smell, touch, taste and or
hearing. We call this information Sense Testimony. It is what
our senses testify to.
- RichardKula< We all have feelings and thoughts
about this information much of which is based on other sense
testimony but how much of any of this is based on truth or is
any of this in any way reality in a real sense. We allow other
people to support our beliefs because we call them in as
- witnesses. In other words you might have a friend who has
seen your mother in action or her mother is that way so she believes
you.... we spread these rumors, as it were, because we don't
feel we can change it but it helps us to be able to better deal
with it......... or so we think.
- SageWoman< sticking stoner in back with pencil
- RichardKula< As truth seekers we must begin to
doubt everything that we believe. We must become our own jurors
and go beyond a reasonable doubt as to whether or not what we
have formed conclusions on is true or not. Our whole Universe
is made up of beliefs which are false. This is not just good
vs bad.... or right vs wrong... this is the dilemma which brings
on the "there is no good or bad" or worse "good
and bad both exist otherwise we wouldn't know what good was".
We have a world living in good and bad and most still do not
seem to know what good is. We must understand..... more
- stoner< ouch
- RichardKula< that if we are to make change... and
we usually want change because we want something better.... and
what is better if in fact it does not indeed express at least
"closer" to say Perfection.... Wholeness..... Completeness....
there are absolutes which we strive for even humanly yet we are
not aware of it. All of our inventions can be traced right back
to Higher States of Consciousness which have been saluted by
the inventor even if based on the premise "Necessity is
the mother of invention." example: I need to talk to someone
far away but with my voice so I can communicate as clearly as
possible as if we were together. ONENESS came into this realization.
It is ONENESS which is being expressed everytime we use the telephone.
Also HARMONY and to a degree we can see PERFECTION and the endless
possibilities, even to the Internet we can see a connection to
INFINITY. The Truth had to be recognized on some level for the
invention to be made manifest.
- RichardKula< SageWoman put that pencil down or
I will have to bring Ringess back in here as a mirror. LOL
- RichardKula< Is everyone following at this point.
Please contribute your thoughts and feelings:
- stoner< I'm right with you so far Richard
- SageWoman< Richard it is hard for me to put into
words but I follow what you are saying. It seems that once I
stopped having expectations of what things were supposed to be
like, in relationships or myself, then I began to experience
the Oneness. Except with money. It continues to elude me although
as Oneness I can see there is no lack, my pocketbook refuses
- bluez< hello
- RichardKula< Hello bluez .... welcome to our little
group here this evening... we are discovering how one can actually
change their consciousness.
- bluez< how do u use this chat
- SageWoman< Hello bluez. just hit the refresh button
every time you want to read what others have posted, even if
you haven't said anything.
- RichardKula< In reality which is ONE and it is
Whole, Complete and Perfect it as we has discussed also Infinite.
Therefore Truth, Oneness, whathaveyou is Ongoing. So we have
Ongoing Truth expressing itself Out and Back to itself. It is
self sustaining because it is all there there is therefore it
- naturally has all that it needs.... not almost enough...
not too much... but the perfect amount. It has more than necessary
in the sense of expressing abundance but that is a human misapplication
to the realization of "my cup runneth over." There
is always the perfect amount in Reality yet supply does
- not stop there... there is always a ready made inventory
for the next request because what we are talking about here is
CONSCIOUSNESS.... and all is consciousness.... even as "human
mentality" we can imagine anything, and within our "consciousness"
all can be fulfilled with thought. Unfortunately
- we always already get back what we put out.... we just don't
always know what it is buried deep down inside of us which is
acting as the experience we are using to outpicture our desires
for us. Sometimes very disappointing, no?
- SageWoman< So if I picture one outcome say an abundant
supply of money and travel and my own computer room, and hubby
is seeing lack of this, and no money for that, and grumbles when
paying bills, whose reality is going to be manifested?
- RichardKula< If we knew our needs could be met
anytime we spoke the word it would make things a lot simpler...
and yet, as I said, we are speaking the word.... you are all
familiar with computers... we are software with data which does
not always compute and yet it does.... if you clicked on the
- refresh/post window and it would send up an error message
stating that the information which you require is not available
at this time.... it would be very irritating but something was
going on which triggered this message... yes an error perhaps
or an overloaded cache or a memory problem or a server overload...
who knows... but you would know that the accepted response wasn't
happening... unfortunately.... more
- SageWoman< looks like its you and me RK
- RichardKula< but as SageWoman said if you want
abundance and you have certain needs and yet the money for it
isn't there what is the software problem.... what is the hardware
problem... where is the "short circuit" that is preventing
me from living comfortably and having all my financial needs
taken care of?"
- SageWoman< I want to blame it on hubby but I suppose
that is not the correct answer *G*
- RichardKula< indeed
- SageWoman< okay what would be hardware and what
would be software?
- RichardKula< I guess you can if you wish... he
is an outpicturing of your consciousness as well, but in this
journey we must follow the trail, and he is a bread crumb in
the journey, but we must follow this trail till we get closer
and closer to the problem.... so that we may "deal"
- PrarySky< A brief drop by to say Hello....and to
wish you the best for Thanksgiving...!
- RichardKula< Generally in cases such as this we
begin by learning what is the first technique which we all do
but we may not have had a name for it. Being an Observer. Being
the observer self is the self which some people used to call
a conscience but forget that for the moment because we are not
- dealing with a feeling of guilt here.... the Observer in
us is the part of ourselves who warns us of an oncoming bus even
though another part of us is just about to step in front of it.
- SageWoman< Hi PrarySky sounds like you have a full
meal planned. I am eating next door by the in-laws. Nice arrangement.
- SageWoman< Richard I think I have gotten to that.
I don't find myself worried about money or thinking where is
it going to come from. I just follow what I believe I am supposed
to be doing and trusting that it will come. But it doesn't and
it hasn't. So where am I not seeing this correctly. Because I
believe you, it is an error in my perception.
- RichardKula< I come on line and I must observe
my own reactions to people I am dealing with to better know myself.
I didn't make them "irritating" but it is MY reaction
which I must deal with... later I may find they weren't even
iritating but I just reacted that way out of ignorance or memories
- fears and angers having nothing to do with the now. Only
having to do with the past which lives today inside of us and
never changes until WE CHANGE.
- PrarySky< SageWoman..Yes, the best of arrangements!
*smile* My folks live next door...She cooks for the rest home
so I normally cook for the holidays..It is a way I try to make
things better for her...It is amazing to hear just how much she
puts together out there! Wow...
- RichardKula< Hi PrarySky love you
- RichardKula< You and PMAN have a great holiday!
- PrarySky< RichardKula...Love you too! Wish you
the best in Thanks giving...!
- PrarySky< Will do...I will go now...Early morning
for myself and the second stage of feasting! Night...
- RichardKula< So we observe ourself and see patterns
begin to emerge. We see that it isn't easy paying our rent every
month. Sometimes we buy hamburger instead of Tri-tip. We wear
certain clothes beyond their usual accepted lifetime for reasons
more than we just love that outfit. We start to see
- times when people offered us things but we said Oh I don't
deserve that you keep it. Or statements or feelings of "I
am not worthy." There are always patterns, habit patterns
which will emerge that we can trace back to feelings of not being
worth anything or in fact feelings of actually being worthless.
We even live in a society which says that humility means that
poverty is good. We tell someone thank you and they say it was
- SageWoman< that's true. How about giving? If we
feel we can't afford to give to others freely then we are saying
there isn't going to be enough for me.
- RichardKula< They say a picture is worth a thousand
words but also a word is worth a thousand pictures. Our consciousness
is pictures which is words which is pictures and all it means
are buttons upon buttons we push where we get responses good
- tripster< Hello all, I've been hanging in here
- kind of a voyeur, wanting to know what axiomatic thinking we're
talking about. Reads like a good chat! It's way past time I should
be considering what "truths" I accept in my reality
without proof. But then the deepest of beliefs probably can't
be proven or disproven. Spirit seems to be like that.
- SageWoman< Welcome tripster. Richard, I have even
made an abundance collage to change the pictures in my mind.
I see a flock of birds or wheat in a field and I imagine that
abundance flowing to me and through me.
- RichardKula< This is true too. We must have a sense
of the reciprocalness with giving. Jesus washed Peter's feet
and he was upset and didn't want his master to wash his feet.
Jesus told him that if he would not let this be done he could
not be deemed worthy to wash his masters feet. We cannot give
if receiving is wrong or we are believing that receiving is wrong
otherwise we are saying I am giving this to you but it is wrong
for you to receive it. We must realize the Out and Back wherein
it is equal Male/Female Giving/Receiving.
- RichardKula< This "Visualization" can
work. But we are going to go beyond that to an even more efficient
manner in achieving our goals. That is why this process, or path,
we are on is one of accellerated growth. more...
- tripster< Have you ever worked one of those puzzles
that could only be solved if you pursued the logical path up
to a certain point then did some kind of flip flop action that
brought everything into alignment. Actually I woke up thinking
of the possibility that perhaps I'm at a point where I've
- pursued logical changes and patterns to the point that it
is now time to make one of those miraculous flip flops in my
- RichardKula< But let's talk abou visualization.
It works. It too is a part of our natural everyday thinking process.
We visualize things all day long every day. Sometimes of course
we don't realize what we are doing and we don't realize the great
benefits we are receiving, or not receiving because we are not
conscious of what is taking place. more
- RichardKula< Sort of what we are dealing with here
tripster. Logic is not so bad... it is just that we form conclusions
based on false or self defeating information and in consciousness
it is manifested in our lives echoing our belief systems even
though we didn't realize that that was going to happen. What
a shock. Of course most people do not accept responsibility for
what is their world as their reflection... eventually we all
come to realize that. more
- SageWoman< "Just as a clear, brilliant gem
is colored by the shade of other objects around it; so is the
gem of the mind colored by the shade of inner vision." (Aryadeva)
- RichardKula< Visualization is the basis of many
peoples prayers, voodoo, treasure mapping, curses, blessings,
hope chests, wish lists, etc. We keep focussing on the desires
and eventually they will come about ..... sometimes they do sometimes
they don't. But when they do come about what has taken
- place is the energy toward manifesting an item or condition
or situation is stronger than the previous energy holding it
back. In other words if I am sick with cancer and I chant over
and over again "I want to be healed, I want to be healed,
I want to be healed" there is a possibility that eventually
My Desire to be Healed is stronger than the belief system which
brought about the disease to begin with. But we also know how
often we have seen people pray with no results. The difference
with what we are
- approaching in these teachings is.... more
- RichardKula< we are going to remove the input which
says "I am sick" and replace it with the understanding
and knowingness of Truth in that we can readily realize "I
AM PERFECT HEALTH." This new awareness becomes fixed in
consciousness therefore the only outpicturing is perfect health
and we call that a healing. Yet there was no healing. There was
a change in consciousness because in Truth Perfect Health is
Reality but we believed that we were sick, we had accepted a
false idea about ourselves and it outpictured that idea.... but
in seeing and knowing the Truth.... it set us FREE.
- RichardKula< This will be the stopping point here
but I am open to a few questions that relate to what we just
went over. *S*
- RichardKula< I liked your quote there. I must put
in on my web site it is beautiful.
- SageWoman< I am still not finding the flaw in my
software Richard. It must be buried really deep.
- RichardKula< I say you are pretty and you do not
believe me. You do not say to yourself I am pretty. If I say
to your you are rich will you say to yourself I am rich. But
you have wealth. You are valuable... you have not seen a lot
of your value or given yourself "CREDIT" for a lot
of things... I
- think there are patterns right on the surface you could look
at and see it in operation. Right?
- tripster< Read a great book recently, probably
a little simplistic for your tastes, RichardKula, but actually
its simplicity was what excited me. This book, titled "The
Joy Book" is written by Prem Raja Baba and he teaches two
main techniques. The first part of the book is about working
- subconscious and retreiving "programs" from God
for the things we desire in our lives. I had been asking for
the simplest means of communicating with my subconscious (there
have been times when I actually considered it my enemy because
it almost always did the opposite of that I consciously desired!)
I can testify that this is simple but better, it's effective.
The second half
- of the book is training ourselves in unconditional love.
Actually, I think he needed to "flip flop" the book.
- RichardKula< But it is easy to get people interested
in Things other than Unconditional Love, no? Probably a publisher's
decision anyway, LOL
- SageWoman< Okay I buy the I'm not pretty part but
I am working on that one. But I really do believe that I am valuable
and that I deserve nice things in my life. I am giving and loving
and open, I don't hoard, I count my blessings. In money it is
still something deeper.
- tripster< Sage Woman, would you be willing to test
Prem's technique for a week, two weeks? What have you got to
- RichardKula< I was brought up in a household with
a lot of verbal abuse though subtle, but the basic attitude was
"you will never amount to anything", "you are
too lazy" "you aren't worth it" "you are
never going to make it" all of which become seeds which
were planted that I am still plucking out and replanting new
seeds of truth so that not only am I of value but that even I
may reap the results of that wealth. LOL
- SageWoman< tripster I would but I am (hey I just
caught myself in one) I was about to say spreading myself thin..as
in not enough to go around, lacking. Just a phrase but one more
seed, huh Richard?
- tripster< What I'm suggesting here is that after
all the years we've spent peeling the onion a layer at a time,
maybe we just need to chop right through the sucker.
- RichardKula< You are looking too much at the word
money and the concept of money. You must look at how you value
yourself. What worth do you have for yourself. Do you let people
run all over you because you don't want to start a problem. Do
you ever feel afraid about giving yourself in who you really
are or do you feel that you hold back... not quite putting out
the full amount... do you ever feel guilty about things and then
punish yourself internally by thinking bad of yourself... devaluation
of the self worth?
- RichardKula< This is true... this is where we observe...
- tripster< Sound kind of like a cheerleader, don't
- RichardKula< That is what we are doing here tripster...
surely you see that based on what you said about Prem's book?
- glyph< Namaste all
- tripster< Do you mean RK that you're chopping through
the sucker? No, I think you're going after each layer, the most
superficial first, then the next, then the next..... It's what
many of us have been trained to do but how many of us are really
- RichardKula< The difference perhaps in what I am
teaching and what Prem is teaching is that I want my students
to allow their self which is one with God to receive the perfect
NOW answer as determined by a full awareness and not simply attain
what the human self thinks that it has been denied. If I visualize
the house I think I want and I get it, there may be things which
I did not put into my visualization that God would already know
as my Higher Self. I need to not structure but understand that
the concept of "Housing" is in truth abundant, whole,
complete and perfect for all my needs" and when that is
manifested in "my world" it will answer questions I
hadn't even known to ask at the time of my original need. *S*
- SageWoman< Richard all of that is true of myself
in the past. But not any more, at least from my perspective.
I am counting on you to show me where I am not finding it. I
decided that my spiritual growth was going to be primary in my
life, that I was worth it and everything else was secondary.
- don't let people run over me, in fact I am accused of being
selfish because I am not at their beck and call. I have come
to a place where I don't even plan my day, I let it happen to
me so I can't punish myself for not doing something. I guess
I just need to give it more time......which is an illusion.
- RichardKula< I am cutting it off here because I
have to deal with tomorrow's celebration tonight. Thank you for
joining us Tripster.... and as always,
- SageWoman... my love to you.
- SageWoman< Goodnight Richard and I am sorry for
- tripster< I just erased what I had written, RK.
I understand what you are teaching but before I could achieve
any success or peace within myself, I needed to know how to work
with my inner saboteur.
- RichardKula< Goodnight... hello glyph! and Tripster
we do cut right through but we still must deal with everything...
there is no denial here... and the goal is to realize who we
are... not just what we can get. I am not saying that is not
your goal, but simply ours. Namaste.
- tripster< Have a JOYFUL Thanksgiving Richard. Thanks
for your teachings.
- tripster< Night all. I pray you'll allow a true
energy exchange, SageWoman, as much love coming in as going out.
- tripster< Glyph, I didn't even say hello. Maybe
we'll meet again and chat.
- glyph< tripster, No worries. I wish I was here
earlier looks like an interesting discussion
- tripster< I'm afraid I really intruded. Just too
strong minded for my own good!
- glyph< tripster, I don't imagine you were too much
of an intrusion. Looked to me that everything was being said
that wanted to be said.
Return to "Axiomatic Thinking I"
Nov. 18, 1997
Another SWC Event... "GOD... in a box"
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