Axiomatic Thinking II

Nov. 26,1997

This event unfolded as you can read here:
Starts Wed. Nov 26 20:56:20 1997 (MST)  Return To Newsletter Cover    Return to Axiomatic Thinking Part I... November 18, 1997
 "Axiomatic Thinking I"  Nov. 18, 1997
RichardKula< Aloha..... and a good evening to you all!
RichardKula< Hello Stoner... what a prompt display... how encouraging. LOL
stoner< Having Hawiian dream Richard??,, Me too
RichardKula< SageWoman is walking down the hall now even as we speak.
RichardKula< Yes, I dream in Hawaiian all day long. Even played some Hawaiian music today.
stoner< I see you were expecting others, they may be too busy getting ready for Turkey day
SageWoman< trots into class, throws bookbag on desk, spits gum into trash, and slouches in seat. Hi teach, what's up man?
RichardKula< I thought I heard the click click click of those high heels as you approach this room. Room 222. LOL
RichardKula< She may have to stay after class.
stoner< Those high heels will do it every time
RichardKula< I don't have any idea who is going to show so I am going to start immediately. I want to review a few things from last week and then I want to make a statement. more
SageWoman< checking to see if cheat sheets are still tucked in safe place *S*
RichardKula< Can you both take seats a little closer to the front so I don't have to yell.... I am just getting over a cold. *s*
stoner< Sure , I got 30 mins before bed
RichardKula< The Syllogism: Truth is that which is so, that which is not truth is not so, therefore truth is all there is.
RichardKula< This syllogism based on the format of a syllogism conforms to Major Premise, Minor Premise and Conclusion
SageWoman< throwing a spit ball at stoner
The_Ringess< Que?
The_Ringess< /topic Dharma Shmarma Who really cares anyway?
RichardKula< Before I get too deep into the spiritual side of things, I want to emphasize that what we are dealing with here psychologically is the way we think. We think this way all the time because what we are dealing with here is the thinking process. The only difference is that the information we use to form conclusions is not always so trustworthy. For example:
RichardKula< Are you wishing to join the group Ringess?
RichardKula< Okay, I shall cont.
The_Ringess< Is this an exclusive group? I tend to conform to the philosophy expounded by the sage Woody Allen in that I would never belong to any group that would have me as a member.
SageWoman< The Ringess, you are welcome to join us but I came to listen and to learn
RichardKula< I was hurt in love, I don't like that kind of pain. therefore I will never fall in love again.
RichardKula< That is okay because Mia Farrow wouldn't have you either!
RichardKula< So to be hurt in love becomes an experience which we evaluate... it is only natural. And to realize that that kind of pain is not desirable is commendable. But to avoid that pain by removing risks in this manner is not axiomatically sound. The syllogism which is formed is what is
humorously called a SILLYgism because it is absurd and yet people form this conclusion daily all over the world.
The_Ringess< Ah that's a good one too. Or how about the observation that some are enlightened and some aren't. That's got to rank up there as a conclusion based on faulty information.
RichardKula< This is way it is important to establish an understanding of what truth is so that we can form conclusions based on something substantial. Like I said... this is not a new philosophy, this is the normal everyday way in which we already think and form conclusions.
RichardKula< How about I am lonely and hostile, if I interrupt the flow of the current social happening I will get attention, therefore that is what I will do and I will succeed in fulfilling my emptiness.
RichardKula< This too is faulty logic and will achieve poor results... the major premise and the minor premise do not sufficiently form the conclusion shown and emptiness will still continue. Can we all see that? LOL
The_Ringess< Or how about I know things that other people don't.
RichardKula< Our world, though we all see it differently conforms to each of our states of consciousness. Our thinking is a process which continues that as well as being a filter which will also help to conform it to our state of consciousness. We play active and passive roles in the world that we
interact with and in how we interpret what is going on.... having nothing to do with Absolute Reality.
RichardKula< Can someone contribute a statement about their world that they believe is actually true, or factual. Yes?
SageWoman< I think I finally am beginning to see how true this is. It used to drive me nuts to go see my mother or to have her visit. Now it just flows right through me.
RichardKula< /topic Axiomatic Thinking
SageWoman< It is absolutely true that I do not have enough money to pay my bills.
RichardKula< What was it about your mother which made you uncomfortable?
stoner< Only that I am aware, other than that I must say I have heavy blinders
RichardKula< Okay we have enough to deal with for the moment.
SageWoman< She talked too much, she didn't understand me, she was critical, blah blah.
RichardKula< Mothers can cause pain, we don't have enough money to pay our bills and we look at life in a limit way.
RichardKula< These statements relate to our senses because it is interpreted by sight, smell, touch, taste and or hearing. We call this information Sense Testimony. It is what our senses testify to.
RichardKula< We all have feelings and thoughts about this information much of which is based on other sense testimony but how much of any of this is based on truth or is any of this in any way reality in a real sense. We allow other people to support our beliefs because we call them in as
witnesses. In other words you might have a friend who has seen your mother in action or her mother is that way so she believes you.... we spread these rumors, as it were, because we don't feel we can change it but it helps us to be able to better deal with it......... or so we think.
SageWoman< sticking stoner in back with pencil
RichardKula< As truth seekers we must begin to doubt everything that we believe. We must become our own jurors and go beyond a reasonable doubt as to whether or not what we have formed conclusions on is true or not. Our whole Universe is made up of beliefs which are false. This is not just good vs bad.... or right vs wrong... this is the dilemma which brings on the "there is no good or bad" or worse "good and bad both exist otherwise we wouldn't know what good was". We have a world living in good and bad and most still do not seem to know what good is. We must understand..... more
stoner< ouch
RichardKula< that if we are to make change... and we usually want change because we want something better.... and what is better if in fact it does not indeed express at least "closer" to say Perfection.... Wholeness..... Completeness.... there are absolutes which we strive for even humanly yet we are not aware of it. All of our inventions can be traced right back to Higher States of Consciousness which have been saluted by the inventor even if based on the premise "Necessity is the mother of invention." example: I need to talk to someone far away but with my voice so I can communicate as clearly as possible as if we were together. ONENESS came into this realization. It is ONENESS which is being expressed everytime we use the telephone. Also HARMONY and to a degree we can see PERFECTION and the endless possibilities, even to the Internet we can see a connection to INFINITY. The Truth had to be recognized on some level for the invention to be made manifest.
RichardKula< SageWoman put that pencil down or I will have to bring Ringess back in here as a mirror. LOL
RichardKula< Is everyone following at this point. Please contribute your thoughts and feelings:
stoner< I'm right with you so far Richard
SageWoman< Richard it is hard for me to put into words but I follow what you are saying. It seems that once I stopped having expectations of what things were supposed to be like, in relationships or myself, then I began to experience the Oneness. Except with money. It continues to elude me although as Oneness I can see there is no lack, my pocketbook refuses to cooperate
bluez< hello
RichardKula< Hello bluez .... welcome to our little group here this evening... we are discovering how one can actually change their consciousness.
bluez< how do u use this chat
SageWoman< Hello bluez. just hit the refresh button every time you want to read what others have posted, even if you haven't said anything.
RichardKula< In reality which is ONE and it is Whole, Complete and Perfect it as we has discussed also Infinite. Therefore Truth, Oneness, whathaveyou is Ongoing. So we have Ongoing Truth expressing itself Out and Back to itself. It is self sustaining because it is all there there is therefore it
naturally has all that it needs.... not almost enough... not too much... but the perfect amount. It has more than necessary in the sense of expressing abundance but that is a human misapplication to the realization of "my cup runneth over." There is always the perfect amount in Reality yet supply does
not stop there... there is always a ready made inventory for the next request because what we are talking about here is CONSCIOUSNESS.... and all is consciousness.... even as "human mentality" we can imagine anything, and within our "consciousness" all can be fulfilled with thought. Unfortunately
we always already get back what we put out.... we just don't always know what it is buried deep down inside of us which is acting as the experience we are using to outpicture our desires for us. Sometimes very disappointing, no?
SageWoman< So if I picture one outcome say an abundant supply of money and travel and my own computer room, and hubby is seeing lack of this, and no money for that, and grumbles when paying bills, whose reality is going to be manifested?
RichardKula< If we knew our needs could be met anytime we spoke the word it would make things a lot simpler... and yet, as I said, we are speaking the word.... you are all familiar with computers... we are software with data which does not always compute and yet it does.... if you clicked on the
refresh/post window and it would send up an error message stating that the information which you require is not available at this time.... it would be very irritating but something was going on which triggered this message... yes an error perhaps or an overloaded cache or a memory problem or a server overload... who knows... but you would know that the accepted response wasn't happening... unfortunately.... more
SageWoman< looks like its you and me RK
RichardKula< but as SageWoman said if you want abundance and you have certain needs and yet the money for it isn't there what is the software problem.... what is the hardware problem... where is the "short circuit" that is preventing me from living comfortably and having all my financial needs taken care of?"
SageWoman< I want to blame it on hubby but I suppose that is not the correct answer *G*
RichardKula< indeed
SageWoman< okay what would be hardware and what would be software?
RichardKula< I guess you can if you wish... he is an outpicturing of your consciousness as well, but in this journey we must follow the trail, and he is a bread crumb in the journey, but we must follow this trail till we get closer and closer to the problem.... so that we may "deal" with it.
PrarySky< A brief drop by to say Hello....and to wish you the best for Thanksgiving...!
RichardKula< Generally in cases such as this we begin by learning what is the first technique which we all do but we may not have had a name for it. Being an Observer. Being the observer self is the self which some people used to call a conscience but forget that for the moment because we are not
dealing with a feeling of guilt here.... the Observer in us is the part of ourselves who warns us of an oncoming bus even though another part of us is just about to step in front of it.
SageWoman< Hi PrarySky sounds like you have a full meal planned. I am eating next door by the in-laws. Nice arrangement. *S*
SageWoman< Richard I think I have gotten to that. I don't find myself worried about money or thinking where is it going to come from. I just follow what I believe I am supposed to be doing and trusting that it will come. But it doesn't and it hasn't. So where am I not seeing this correctly. Because I believe you, it is an error in my perception.
RichardKula< I come on line and I must observe my own reactions to people I am dealing with to better know myself. I didn't make them "irritating" but it is MY reaction which I must deal with... later I may find they weren't even iritating but I just reacted that way out of ignorance or memories or
fears and angers having nothing to do with the now. Only having to do with the past which lives today inside of us and never changes until WE CHANGE.
PrarySky< SageWoman..Yes, the best of arrangements! *smile* My folks live next door...She cooks for the rest home so I normally cook for the holidays..It is a way I try to make things better for her...It is amazing to hear just how much she puts together out there! Wow...
RichardKula< Hi PrarySky love you
RichardKula< You and PMAN have a great holiday!
PrarySky< RichardKula...Love you too! Wish you the best in Thanks giving...!
PrarySky< Will do...I will go now...Early morning for myself and the second stage of feasting! Night...
RichardKula< So we observe ourself and see patterns begin to emerge. We see that it isn't easy paying our rent every month. Sometimes we buy hamburger instead of Tri-tip. We wear certain clothes beyond their usual accepted lifetime for reasons more than we just love that outfit. We start to see
times when people offered us things but we said Oh I don't deserve that you keep it. Or statements or feelings of "I am not worthy." There are always patterns, habit patterns which will emerge that we can trace back to feelings of not being worth anything or in fact feelings of actually being worthless. We even live in a society which says that humility means that poverty is good. We tell someone thank you and they say it was nothing.
SageWoman< that's true. How about giving? If we feel we can't afford to give to others freely then we are saying there isn't going to be enough for me.
RichardKula< They say a picture is worth a thousand words but also a word is worth a thousand pictures. Our consciousness is pictures which is words which is pictures and all it means are buttons upon buttons we push where we get responses good and bad.
tripster< Hello all, I've been hanging in here - kind of a voyeur, wanting to know what axiomatic thinking we're talking about. Reads like a good chat! It's way past time I should be considering what "truths" I accept in my reality without proof. But then the deepest of beliefs probably can't be proven or disproven. Spirit seems to be like that.
SageWoman< Welcome tripster. Richard, I have even made an abundance collage to change the pictures in my mind. I see a flock of birds or wheat in a field and I imagine that abundance flowing to me and through me.
RichardKula< This is true too. We must have a sense of the reciprocalness with giving. Jesus washed Peter's feet and he was upset and didn't want his master to wash his feet. Jesus told him that if he would not let this be done he could not be deemed worthy to wash his masters feet. We cannot give if receiving is wrong or we are believing that receiving is wrong otherwise we are saying I am giving this to you but it is wrong for you to receive it. We must realize the Out and Back wherein it is equal Male/Female Giving/Receiving.
RichardKula< This "Visualization" can work. But we are going to go beyond that to an even more efficient manner in achieving our goals. That is why this process, or path, we are on is one of accellerated growth. more...
tripster< Have you ever worked one of those puzzles that could only be solved if you pursued the logical path up to a certain point then did some kind of flip flop action that brought everything into alignment. Actually I woke up thinking of the possibility that perhaps I'm at a point where I've
pursued logical changes and patterns to the point that it is now time to make one of those miraculous flip flops in my life.
RichardKula< But let's talk abou visualization. It works. It too is a part of our natural everyday thinking process. We visualize things all day long every day. Sometimes of course we don't realize what we are doing and we don't realize the great benefits we are receiving, or not receiving because we are not conscious of what is taking place. more
RichardKula< Sort of what we are dealing with here tripster. Logic is not so bad... it is just that we form conclusions based on false or self defeating information and in consciousness it is manifested in our lives echoing our belief systems even though we didn't realize that that was going to happen. What a shock. Of course most people do not accept responsibility for what is their world as their reflection... eventually we all come to realize that. more
SageWoman< "Just as a clear, brilliant gem is colored by the shade of other objects around it; so is the gem of the mind colored by the shade of inner vision." (Aryadeva)
RichardKula< Visualization is the basis of many peoples prayers, voodoo, treasure mapping, curses, blessings, hope chests, wish lists, etc. We keep focussing on the desires and eventually they will come about ..... sometimes they do sometimes they don't. But when they do come about what has taken
place is the energy toward manifesting an item or condition or situation is stronger than the previous energy holding it back. In other words if I am sick with cancer and I chant over and over again "I want to be healed, I want to be healed, I want to be healed" there is a possibility that eventually My Desire to be Healed is stronger than the belief system which brought about the disease to begin with. But we also know how often we have seen people pray with no results. The difference with what we are
approaching in these teachings is.... more
RichardKula< we are going to remove the input which says "I am sick" and replace it with the understanding and knowingness of Truth in that we can readily realize "I AM PERFECT HEALTH." This new awareness becomes fixed in consciousness therefore the only outpicturing is perfect health and we call that a healing. Yet there was no healing. There was a change in consciousness because in Truth Perfect Health is Reality but we believed that we were sick, we had accepted a false idea about ourselves and it outpictured that idea.... but in seeing and knowing the Truth.... it set us FREE.
RichardKula< This will be the stopping point here but I am open to a few questions that relate to what we just went over. *S*
RichardKula< I liked your quote there. I must put in on my web site it is beautiful.
SageWoman< I am still not finding the flaw in my software Richard. It must be buried really deep.
RichardKula< I say you are pretty and you do not believe me. You do not say to yourself I am pretty. If I say to your you are rich will you say to yourself I am rich. But you have wealth. You are valuable... you have not seen a lot of your value or given yourself "CREDIT" for a lot of things... I
think there are patterns right on the surface you could look at and see it in operation. Right?
tripster< Read a great book recently, probably a little simplistic for your tastes, RichardKula, but actually its simplicity was what excited me. This book, titled "The Joy Book" is written by Prem Raja Baba and he teaches two main techniques. The first part of the book is about working with our
subconscious and retreiving "programs" from God for the things we desire in our lives. I had been asking for the simplest means of communicating with my subconscious (there have been times when I actually considered it my enemy because it almost always did the opposite of that I consciously desired!) I can testify that this is simple but better, it's effective. The second half
of the book is training ourselves in unconditional love. Actually, I think he needed to "flip flop" the book.
RichardKula< But it is easy to get people interested in Things other than Unconditional Love, no? Probably a publisher's decision anyway, LOL
SageWoman< Okay I buy the I'm not pretty part but I am working on that one. But I really do believe that I am valuable and that I deserve nice things in my life. I am giving and loving and open, I don't hoard, I count my blessings. In money it is still something deeper.
tripster< Sage Woman, would you be willing to test Prem's technique for a week, two weeks? What have you got to loose?
RichardKula< I was brought up in a household with a lot of verbal abuse though subtle, but the basic attitude was "you will never amount to anything", "you are too lazy" "you aren't worth it" "you are never going to make it" all of which become seeds which were planted that I am still plucking out and replanting new seeds of truth so that not only am I of value but that even I may reap the results of that wealth. LOL
SageWoman< tripster I would but I am (hey I just caught myself in one) I was about to say spreading myself in not enough to go around, lacking. Just a phrase but one more seed, huh Richard?
tripster< What I'm suggesting here is that after all the years we've spent peeling the onion a layer at a time, maybe we just need to chop right through the sucker.
RichardKula< You are looking too much at the word money and the concept of money. You must look at how you value yourself. What worth do you have for yourself. Do you let people run all over you because you don't want to start a problem. Do you ever feel afraid about giving yourself in who you really are or do you feel that you hold back... not quite putting out the full amount... do you ever feel guilty about things and then punish yourself internally by thinking bad of yourself... devaluation of the self worth?
RichardKula< This is true... this is where we observe...
tripster< Sound kind of like a cheerleader, don't I?
RichardKula< That is what we are doing here tripster... surely you see that based on what you said about Prem's book?
glyph< Namaste all
tripster< Do you mean RK that you're chopping through the sucker? No, I think you're going after each layer, the most superficial first, then the next, then the next..... It's what many of us have been trained to do but how many of us are really overcoming?
RichardKula< The difference perhaps in what I am teaching and what Prem is teaching is that I want my students to allow their self which is one with God to receive the perfect NOW answer as determined by a full awareness and not simply attain what the human self thinks that it has been denied. If I visualize the house I think I want and I get it, there may be things which I did not put into my visualization that God would already know as my Higher Self. I need to not structure but understand that the concept of "Housing" is in truth abundant, whole, complete and perfect for all my needs" and when that is manifested in "my world" it will answer questions I hadn't even known to ask at the time of my original need. *S*
SageWoman< Richard all of that is true of myself in the past. But not any more, at least from my perspective. I am counting on you to show me where I am not finding it. I decided that my spiritual growth was going to be primary in my life, that I was worth it and everything else was secondary. I
don't let people run over me, in fact I am accused of being selfish because I am not at their beck and call. I have come to a place where I don't even plan my day, I let it happen to me so I can't punish myself for not doing something. I guess I just need to give it more time......which is an illusion.
RichardKula< I am cutting it off here because I have to deal with tomorrow's celebration tonight. Thank you for joining us Tripster.... and as always,
SageWoman... my love to you.
SageWoman< Goodnight Richard and I am sorry for throwing spitballs.
tripster< I just erased what I had written, RK. I understand what you are teaching but before I could achieve any success or peace within myself, I needed to know how to work with my inner saboteur.
RichardKula< Goodnight... hello glyph! and Tripster we do cut right through but we still must deal with everything... there is no denial here... and the goal is to realize who we are... not just what we can get. I am not saying that is not your goal, but simply ours. Namaste.
tripster< Have a JOYFUL Thanksgiving Richard. Thanks for your teachings.
tripster< Night all. I pray you'll allow a true energy exchange, SageWoman, as much love coming in as going out.
tripster< Glyph, I didn't even say hello. Maybe we'll meet again and chat.
glyph< tripster, No worries. I wish I was here earlier looks like an interesting discussion
tripster< I'm afraid I really intruded. Just too strong minded for my own good!
glyph< tripster, I don't imagine you were too much of an intrusion. Looked to me that everything was being said that wanted to be said.

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